First time poster here, and with a bit of a story to tell.
I was at an auction a couple of months ago, mostly as a driver for my brother, who has quite the fleet of oddball cars. Having seen the auction list, I noticed a 1941 Packard 120 and a 1941 Chevrolet Master Deluxe in glorious Maroon with a nice two-tone and a completely redone interior and complete re-chrome job. Taking a look in person, I noted that the car was much better than the pictures, and assumed it would go for quite a lot. The Packard was worse than the pictures, and so I disregarded it.
Still, when the 1941 Chevrolet rolled up onto the auction platform, I was not intent upon bidding. The bidding stalled early, and the auctioneer lectured the crowd about how it was worth so much more than the current bid. I perked up a bit, noting that the leading bidder looked like the type of person that would take this beauty home, chop it up and put a 454 in it, or something tasteless like that. Coming from a car family, I really try to keep things showroom original whenever possible, and the bidding was so low that a sense of obligation came over me. PROTECT THE CHEVY!
A couple thousand dollars more bid-raising later, and the car was mine. So cheap, in fact, it would cost more for the previous owner to have paid for the interior and the re-chroming than what I got the car for. So cheap, in fact, that people arriving just 30 minutes later offered me double what I paid on the spot (I refused). So cheap, that I assumed the car wouldn't run, but to my surprise it fired right up. Getting the thing home, I realized that I maybe made the best deal on a car in my whole life - this thing hasn't any rust perforations on it anywhere! And that's saying something because it's a Canadian car and our winters aren't exactly easy on undersides/frames!
I still don't know what happened. I think maybe someone restored 95%+ of the car and then ran into money or health trouble... it just doesn't make any sense to auction off something so beautiful.
I've spent the last few days adding some things to finish up the restoration. New manifold gaskets, new light bulbs, added turn signals etc. But I'm constantly amazed at how much work someone already put into this machine! I'm going to try to attach some photos here to show this fine automobile.
EDIT: It appears I cannot attach pictures directly, so here are links instead.
Just wanted to show a quick shot of the underside too. Outside of the tail pipe needing to be replaced, this car has no rust perforations at all. Even my 2014 Chevy doesn't look this good!
I am no expert when it comes to this car specifically, though I have reasonable knowledge of cars in general since my father has 50+ years in automotive restoration/repair. Still, I have a couple questions for you knowledgable folks.
First, here is a double-shot of something odd. I have the high-beam foot button in the normal position, but way above the steering column there is another one. I have circled it in red. On the other side of the firewall there is live power coming in from the left and going out on the right. Whatever was on the right was disconnected, but I checked and when the switch is pressed there is power there. Anyone know what would have been there? It definitely looks factory. Keep in mind this was a Canadian-built car. I should also note that the position of this switch is so high I almost cannot reach it with my foot!
Unless someone knows what should be there, should I remove it or should I just attach an ahwooga horn since there's already power there? The switch on the floor, if I recall, releases as soon as my foot lifts off it, so I think that rules out it being an old driving/fog lights button? If anyone thinks that's what it is, I can confirm the button is not an on/off "kick" type like the normal one for the high/low beams.
Another question: I have read about Octane selectors in these vehicles, but never actually seen one. I checked the American version of the service manual and it seemed to indicate that I would find it as a silver button below the distributor, and though I thought I spotted it, it turned out to just be the grease cap (which I refilled with grease since I had it off). Anyone know where I can find the octane selector? Is it just not present on Canadian build Chevys of this era? I talked to two Chevrolet enthusiasts, both Canadian, and they say they've never seen one either.
Thanks to any help you can provide. I'm anxious to get this beauty on the road as soon as I add the final touches (manual pump-action windshield washer, driving lights etc).
Welcome to the Chevy Chat. Very interesting story. Just not the kind of luck I get. I also have a 1941 Master Deluxe 5-pass coupe.
You will get answers on your 41 as there are many members who have 41s. They probably will not be able to answer your question about the momentary contact switch you pointed out.
Your car does not have an Octane selector. Can't tell from the picture if the reversing switch is mounted and working.
You did not indicate if the interior was correct. I don't think I have ever seen a 41 painted as yours.
Anyway, have fun with your new toy and hang around on Chevy Chat for information and fun.
Not having ever owned a '41 or any in the 40s except for my '43 G506, I can't be of much help. The photos do indeed show a great purchase. Seems you were selected to be the caretaker. I would guess that the extra foot switch is for an additional horn. The size of the terminals suggests lots of power required.
The octane selectoe is adjusted by loosening the bolt in your picture to the left of the grease cup. The bolt threads into the block. Clean-up that area and you will see A and R marking stamped in etc.
Difficult to believe no one knew about the octane selector. Chevrolet used that adjustment arangement from 1939-1962.
If it were my car I would remove the gaggle of wire and switches to prevent future shorts and problems.
While Chevrolet offered only a solid maroon color in 1941 some other GM makes offered the combination with that top color. Looks great.
So where did you go to experience this extreme luck! I feel bad because I live not too far from you! Some of the photos aren't loading for me right now, and I think that is probably just a high demand problem at the moment.
Good for you for saving a beautiful old Chevy. There were differences in some of the Canadian Chevs. There is a guy that vends at the Barrie Flea market, coming up in a few weeks and he has old Canadian manuals.
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
OK I can see them all now. I am not sure about that switch but some folks like to hide a kill switch of some type to make the car hard to steal. Wow you have a pretty nice old Chevy there!
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
Welcome to the Chevy Chat. Very interesting story. Just not the kind of luck I get. I also have a 1941 Master Deluxe 5-pass coupe.
You will get answers on your 41 as there are many members who have 41s. They probably will not be able to answer your question about the momentary contact switch you pointed out.
Your car does not have an Octane selector. Can't tell from the picture if the reversing switch is mounted and working.
You did not indicate if the interior was correct. I don't think I have ever seen a 41 painted as yours.
Anyway, have fun with your new toy and hang around on Chevy Chat for information and fun.
Thank you kindly for the welcome.
Based on the info I have, I think this is the Town Sedan as opposed to the 5-pass coupe. Though if you have a counter to prove otherwise, I would definitely like to know.
The lower body colour is original and correct - I checked the firewall plate. The upper colour appears to be artistic license by a previous owner - from what I can tell it was a colour pattern available on a 1941 Pontiac Silver Streak which used a similar maroon on the lower half.
The interior uses the same seats and general layout of the original, but the material is harder-wearing and more plush. Certainly very nice, but definitely not the original. It was made to match the two-tone of the exterior. While the colour may not be to some people's tastes, I must concede that the stitching quality is very well done, and better than factory. The headliner is also custom colour, following the correct installation of the original, but not the original colour.
When you say "your car does not have an Octane Selector", do you mean that you cannot see one in the photo, or that you know that this model/build of car is not supposed to have one? All the US folks, I've read, have an octane selector in their 41 Chevys, or so I understood.
Apologies, I'm also not sure about your question regarding the "reversing switch". I am not familiar with that term. What purpose would that serve?
The octane selectoe is adjusted by loosening the bolt in your picture to the left of the grease cup. The bolt threads into the block. Clean-up that area and you will see A and R marking stamped in etc.
Difficult to believe no one knew about the octane selector. Chevrolet used that adjustment arangement from 1939-1962.
If it were my car I would remove the gaggle of wire and switches to prevent future shorts and problems.
While Chevrolet offered only a solid maroon color in 1941 some other GM makes offered the combination with that top color. Looks great.
Thanks kindly for your response. When you say the octane selector is the bolt to the left, do you mean the hex bolt immediately to the left? If so, yes, that's quite the hiding spot, but if it's still set to "0" my understanding is that is when octane was a bit closer to 70, and so I should advance it to 8 or so. Will there also be numbers that I can use on there?
Yes, for the wires, I'm going to clean them up, put on electrical tape, and move them a bit higher. I have big feet so I want to be sure I don't kick them.
First if you clean up that area at the base of the distributor it will help. When the bolt is loosened the base retaining the distributor will rotate. Also if the vacuum advance is working the entire distributor will rotate under load. Start engine and speed up engine (at the carburetor) and you should see the distributor turn or rotating several derees. The octane selector was used so the owner could advanvance or retard the timing by used the + or - on the octane selectoor. The corect way was to set the octane selector at the center 0 mark. The set the timing with a timing light as the factory setting. Then drive the car and advance the timing with the octane selector so the engine pings slight at low speeds and full throttle. With todays much higher octane gas you will not make it ping at any setting. Usually they run bet setting the octane selector at 8 degrees advanved. More than that usuall results in kicking back when starting.
If you wish yo can play around and advance the timing with out going thru step one and find the sweet spott
Based on the info I have, I think this is the Town Sedan as opposed to the 5-pass coupe. Though if you have a counter to prove otherwise, I would definitely like to know.
Poorly worded. I have a 1941 and it is a Master Deluxe 5-pass coupe. I agree your car is a Master Deluxe Town Sedan.
The reversing switch is mounted on top of the starter and is activated each time the starter is engaged. It reverses the current flow across the points and was intended to extend the life of the points. It had a special wiring harness that connected the switch to the distributor. If you have the original distributor it will have two terminals, one on each side. Most owners that were mechanically inclined removed this switch and rewired the distributor.
I said you would get a lot of response on your posting and you did.
As Chev Nut said, if you would clean up the area around the base of the distributer we would likely find an octane selector.
It would be interesting to know if your car still had the vacuum assisted shifter, or was that removed also.
Based on the info I have, I think this is the Town Sedan as opposed to the 5-pass coupe. Though if you have a counter to prove otherwise, I would definitely like to know.
Poorly worded. I have a 1941 and it is a Master Deluxe 5-pass coupe. I agree your car is a Master Deluxe Town Sedan.
The reversing switch is mounted on top of the starter and is activated each time the starter is engaged. It reverses the current flow across the points and was intended to extend the life of the points. It had a special wiring harness that connected the switch to the distributor. If you have the original distributor it will have two terminals, one on each side. Most owners that were mechanically inclined removed this switch and rewired the distributor.
I said you would get a lot of response on your posting and you did.
As Chev Nut said, if you would clean up the area around the base of the distributer we would likely find an octane selector.
It would be interesting to know if your car still had the vacuum assisted shifter, or was that removed also.
Great stuff, thank you!
Yes, my car had the original vacuum shifter still in place. It looks pretty good, but the previous owner had disconnected it but had not otherwise modified it in any way. I hooked it back up and while there was some vacuum there, I think it needs to be refurbished. I know there is a kit to work around the unit if you wish, but at present I am considering trying the longer arm off the exact same transmission I have that does not have vacuum assist. Maybe that longer arm takes the place of needing the conversion kit? I assume the kit exists because not everyone just happens to have a spare non-vacuum transmission just lying around (did I mention my family has a history with cars?)
Still don't know what I'm going to do with the vacuum assist unit itself. It probably just needs refurbishing, but I'm not particularly compelled to do that because I understand most folks don't like that feature anyways.
Question: My current shifting is a bit tricky. The shifting is a bit stiff and it is very easy to grind gears because they are so close and the "play" in the shifter/shift pattern is so minimal - you have to ease it out of first to avoid hitting reserve straight away. Now, in fairness, the vacuum assist module has been removed and I am connected to the same mechanical hardware underneath just with no vacuum (no conversion kit, and the longer arm off the other transmission is not yet installed). Still, the shifting at the column feels quite tight and very unforgiving. Will adding that longer arm off the transmission fix this problem? It's almost like someone had the column shifter too tight.
Yes, being the history buff that I am, in the weeks following the purchase I went out and bought all the literature I could find, including the Canadian and US owners manual, the shop manual, the break-in card, and even the dealer's brochure.
I was confused because while the instructions were clear on how to adjust the octane selector, it never really discusses where it is located and the picture in the shop manual seemed to draw attention to the silver grease knob as the octane selector. I know differently now, thanks to you folks, of course.
I mentioned this thread to my father and he noted that he had already made those adjustments and he only ever heard it referred to as "adjusting the distributor timing" (if I recall his exact words correctly). He does them by ear, by the way, and I guess 50+ years experience allows for that level of skill. To his credit I did not see mention of "octane selector" in the Canadian owners manual; only references to "adjusting timing".
You have a wonderful example of a well maintained/restored 41. I have the same model in Ruby Maroon and restored mine in 2015 so am glad to help with questions you have. Since you have been a member of the VCCA Chat Site for 20 hours it is time for you to become familiar with our SEARCh process for finding posts on topics of interest. Try a Search using the terms +vacuum +assist for your KEYWORDS making sure the + (Plus symbol) is right before each keyword. If you want use the DISPLAY NAME Mike Buller or Chevy Nut this will narrow responses to your FAVORITE posters. Here is an example of what you might find: 41 Special Deluxe Shifting Problems
In regards to the discussion of the octane selector here are some pictures that should help, and by the way the pictures you have posted are awesome. Some of us visual learners really, really appreciate them.
I took the '41 down to a "transmission guy" to see if he could get the tight shifting fixed. I also took down the longer "tang" that connects to the transmission for a non-vacuum assist setup with the goal being a longer throw between gears.
At the same time, he's going to swap out the old main seal for a modern one, and also drop the oil pan to remove the sludge that's likely down there - since someone dumped detergent oil in this car at some point in the recent past.
I'm also having all new motor mounts installed since at least 2 are broken. That might help the shifting too, I think.
If all goes well, I might have it on the road this weekend - though I'm going to get all that new chrome nice and shiny first!
QUESTION: While driving the car down, going slowly around a left turn I heard the left-front tire squeal a bit. I suspect then, that something is worn. Any prime suspects that I should check first?
WOW, That's a lot of major surgery you are taking on. I hope your transmission guy knows what he is doing? He must not have any other work to do if you think all the work will be done by the weekend. The list could take a month. I also hope you also gave him your copy of the manual. It is major surgery to replace either the rear seal or the front motor mounts. Since he is going to be spending a lot of time under the car have him do an inspection of the suspension system, wheel bearings, and brakes. You should also have him rebuild the transmission mount while working on the motor mounts. You need to raise the engine a couple of inches to get the front mounts out. I think your expectations are not realistic and you should have him take on the rear motor mounts, transmission and its mount , and suspension first. If he is capable of handling these items to your satisfaction then have him do the rest.
You might want to run it by a group of us who have replaced their rear seals with the MODERN replacement. I, for one, would replace mine with the original style main seal which is made of asbestos and still available on ebay.
If you want to talk with someone who has been there done that call me (989-832-7634). Have you done any SEARCHes of our old posts to find out what is involved in each of these projects? You may be getting into thousands of dollars of work.
Old rear main seal for a modern one.......the original rear main seal was graphited rope. That is still all that is available for a 1954 or prior engine. TThe modern neporene seal will not work in the pre 1954 engines.
I used the rear main seal marketed by Best gasket on both my 216s with success. They are made of a modern day material and it is of woven construction, not stuffed in a sleeve.
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
I used the rear main seal marketed by Best gasket on both my 216s with success. They are made of a modern day material and it is of woven construction, not stuffed in a sleeve.
Yes, sorry, I may have been a bit lazy with my grammar. By "modern seal" I meant one that is manufactured recently as opposed to "more modern materials". I don't have the packaging, but I bought it from Gasket City and I believe it was listed as a (woven?) graphite seal for 216 engine, so I think it's got something in common with the older style.
WOW, That's a lot of major surgery you are taking on. I hope your transmission guy knows what he is doing? He must not have any other work to do if you think all the work will be done by the weekend. The list could take a month. I also hope you also gave him your copy of the manual. It is major surgery to replace either the rear seal or the front motor mounts. Since he is going to be spending a lot of time under the car have him do an inspection of the suspension system, wheel bearings, and brakes. You should also have him rebuild the transmission mount while working on the motor mounts. You need to raise the engine a couple of inches to get the front mounts out. I think your expectations are not realistic and you should have him take on the rear motor mounts, transmission and its mount , and suspension first. If he is capable of handling these items to your satisfaction then have him do the rest.
You might want to run it by a group of us who have replaced their rear seals with the MODERN replacement. I, for one, would replace mine with the original style main seal which is made of asbestos and still available on ebay.
If you want to talk with someone who has been there done that call me (989-832-7634). Have you done any SEARCHes of our old posts to find out what is involved in each of these projects? You may be getting into thousands of dollars of work.
Good luck, Mike
Yes, we know this fellow reasonably well. He's worked with my father's shop and is his "go-to transmission guy". Two guys who only do transmissions, and once it's your car's turn to go in that's all they work on until it is done.
They did not seem fazed by the job and thought they'd be a couple of days on it. They knew the engine needed to be raised and also the driveshaft pulled back to access the working area. Their price for the whole thing was about $400 USD with me supplying the parts. Since they're also changing the clutch out I also left them a copy of that section of the service manual.
They've already called me this morning to tell me they spotted the reason for the vibration - the universal joint needs replacement. So it seems they are being careful as they proceed.
I certainly hope they don't take weeks with this or try to increase the estimate. They certainly seemed like knowledgable folks to me.
I want to entice you into using our SEARCH process to alert you on how you and your mechanics might want to remove your front motor mounts. Search keywords +motor +mounts DISPLAY NAME Mike Buller. Here are a few:
You will also have to disconnect the exhaust pipe, maybe remove the linkage for the gas petal, disconnect the vacuum assist line on the intake manifold, and since the front sheetmetal is on I would take the radiator out and blades to the water pump. You still will also need extra long arms. I would drop in and see how things are progressing. To lift the engine I would use an engine hoist after disconnecting the hood springs. But I have also lifted it using the bottom of the block with the oil pan off.
I shoot a lot of pictures and video for reference purposes. This kind of work can be expensive and I assume the previous owner knew it needed to be done and was cutting his losses after the costs of a new interior and a paint job.
Personally, I think the right order for restoration work should rest heavily on getting the car in A-1 shape mechanically before then doing the body work and last the interior.
The chat site also has a lot of posts on the easiest ways to remove the transmission and reinstall it as well as dealing with rebuilding or replacing the transmission mount. I have a couple rebuild kits for the motor mounts if you don't find them on ebay. I also have some hard to find parts taken from 3 parts cars and from under priced ebay items.
I highly recommend you get the PAPER CATALOG for Chevs of the 40's it has excellent part pictures and some assembly diagrams. There catalog is online without the assembly diagrams. The Filling Station also sells parts and their online catalog has a lot of well written tech article:
With the diversity of mechanical work being done on the car I would make sure every manual you own is left with the mechanics.
Since the universal joint is being replaced you will need a new gasket kit for the torque tube. You will find an excellent article on doing the install in the Tech articles on the Filling Station Chat site, and by doing a SEARCH on our chat site.
Quick question: I noticed the left outer tie rod end is a bit worn, so I'll take the opportunity to change both. Trouble is, in Canada, those are hard parts to find.
It seems that the same part number listed for outer tie rod ends in some US catalogues also comes back to a 1953-1962 Corvette. Can anyone confirm those are exactly the same? It would seem to be, at least from 2 manufacturers. It is much easier to source 1962 Corvette parts than 1941 Chevy parts.
Tie rod ends are available from Chevs of the 40's. The same ends were used for Chevy cars from 1939 to 1954, and on the early Vets. A lot of us check NAPA for parts and even ebay.
When posting on a new topic please use a NEW TITLE. This allows for better indexing of the topics of our posts and better SEARCH results. If I am interested in replacing my tie rod ends I might not want to read through all the past posts generated under the TITLE "Meet my new 1941 Master Deluxe..."
Please do not take my last comment negatively. We are all continually learning more efficient ways to use the VCCA Site.
The switch on the floor, if I recall, releases as soon as my foot lifts off it, so I think that rules out it being an old driving/fog lights button? If anyone thinks that's what it is, I can confirm the button is not an on/off "kick" type like the normal one for the high/low beams.
