Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


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#470784 06/12/22 02:16 PM
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PeterV Offline OP
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Hello everyone. I'm all of a sudden having an overheating problem. I have a 35 Standard Coach and after many years of restoration I wanted to take it to a car show. I had the radiator done a few years ago. I also flushed the block. I have never had a problem with overheating. I have had it idling in my garage for over an hour at a time many times and the temp never passed 180. I have driven it up and down the street a few times without problems. I finally put in the glass and garnish moldings and wanted to take it to a car show. I didn't even get 1/4 of a mile and the temp went to 212. Water and steam spewing out the radiator cap. Got it home and thought it might be the thermostat so took it out. Same problem. Car overheats in 10 minutes. flushed the radiator and ran the car. Same thing. Didi this about 6 times and then filled with antifreeze. Same thing. Have no clue why, all of a sudden. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.

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Can you see coolant circulating when you look into the radiator?

I wonder if something related to the water pump has failed.


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Bad head gasket?


Gene Schneider
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Go back and check your timing, these early Chevys don't tolerate late timing at all. i.e. make sure you have adequate advance.


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My suggestion is to do some checks that should lead to the problem. Accordingly, I advise that you do some check as follows:

a. (Note: do this after you have done "b" below.) :Trip the fan belt, take the thermostat out, take top hose off, fill the outlet neck with water. Crank the engine and observe the water level in the outlet. It should be calm and not flow at all. A gushing out of water indicates anything from a major blown head gasket to a minot head gasket leak, depending on the forcefulness of the activity at the outlet. A cracked head or block will usually usually be manifest with a stream of bubbles but in a fairly steady stream without much gushing as when compression is being leaked directly into the water jackets.

b. With hoses in place and water filled to the top of radiator, start the engine and then come around to look into the top tank and see if the level of water increases at idle or when the engine is goosed. Tendency to over flow either at idle or when engine is goosed indicates that there is not enough flues open and clear in the radiators core to handle the coolant flow. Back flushing the radiator vis the bottom hose/outlet may help but that will only open such flues that the pressure allows before more flushing results in diminishing returns. This is tantamount to putting a bandaid on the problem for a short time and is only masking the problem.

c. If "a'" above indicates a blown head gasket then that will entail either a new head gasket installation or another head or block is needed.

d. The water pump is merely a device to make the water/coolant flow. In most all cases If it is not leaking or the fan belt slipping then it is fine.

e. Water expands with heat and will overflow at the radiator cap until it reached about a third or so of the capacity of that tank. Not likely your concern here.

d. The rapidity of onset of the problem suggests a blown head gasket. A partially stopped up radiator or cracked block or head usually take far more time to manifest itself than is suggested you your description of the problem.

So Gene is probably "right on" when he suggested a blown head gasket.

Good luck with it.

Best,

Charlie computer

BTW: if it is the radiator (which I doubt owing to the time factor and evidence of it becoming stopped up over time) then you may be able to salvage it by a "boiling and rodding" process by a reputable radiator shop. If you do boil and rod it and there tiny leaks on test that show up, don't junk it, just use some powdered stop leak like Solder Seal and it will take care of most of the tiny leaks. Alternative is re-core or another radiator. If you ever boil and rod the radiator make sure you clean/clear the block a much as practical before reinstalling the radiator.

BTW2: Clasping bottom hoses could also be a problem. Not likely but still can happen as they get soft over time.

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One other thought to add to Charlie's excellent list would be to re torque the cylinder head. If your engine was done in the restoration it would need a few re torque checks.

Good luck

Dave

Last edited by Dave39MD; 06/12/22 05:34 PM.
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PeterV Offline OP
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triZero - I did adjust the timing before this happened. It was hard starting and running rich etc. I tweaked the timing just by moving the vac advance a bit. The car starts right up now and is not running rich anymore. I put it back to the way it was, and the car still starts great but still overheats.

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PeterV Offline OP
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Looks like I've got a lot of stuff to check. I did change the water pump. There also is no water in the oil.

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PeterV Offline OP
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Well the problem is fixed. I put the distributor back to where I started and it ran cooler. The water pump was leaking a bit. I think the gasket got folded when I put it in so I took it out and made a new gasket. For some reason, the thermostat that worked fine yesterday when tested isn't opening today when I tested it again. Bought a new one. While I had the thermostat and water pump out I flushed the block forwards and backwards and the radiator to both ways. It worked better for a bit. Took almost 40 minutes before it overheated. I was pissed and shook the car sideways and the block burped and the temp dropped back to 180. So I spent a week changing thermostats and water pumps just because I moved the timing. Lesson learned. Thanks all for the advice. Glad I didn't have to take the head off. Now it's just a matter of tweaking the timing just a teeny bit at a time to get the best performance.

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Pete,
Keep in mind that the '35 Standard is famous for overheating. The radiator is barely adequate in normal circumstances. There is a baffle plate behind your water pump. If it rusts through, the car will over heat. I installed a truck fan on my car and it helped.
In 2021, while on tour in Iowa, my car started running cooler and starting while hot. I had fought both these issues since owning the car which we bought in 1973. (two different 1935 engines) Maybe it was never completely broken in until then.
If you are interested in a truck fan, send me a PM.

Mike


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Pete,

I'm happy for you that the whole heating problem was owing nothing more than the timing being a bit off. The quickness in which the car began reached an indicated 212 and boiling over in ten minutes or less than a quarter mile made me think it was something other than mere timing. I'n old and still have a lot to learn.

I'm amazed that your cooling system is in perfect condition and that all is well,

I hope you may be able to recall my advice in case a more usual overheating problem should happen some day.

Best,

Charlie computer

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Do you time with a timing light?


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PeterV Offline OP
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I may be interested in the fan. I will let you know. The problem is still there only to a lesser degree. It takes longer to overheat but still does.

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PeterV Offline OP
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J - No timing light. When I put the clutch back together I didn't know about the timing marks on the flywheel and I just reassembled it. Needless to say the marks are in the wrong place. I just brought the #1 cylinder to TDC and moved the distributor so that the #1 plug matched it. It just started so quickly and ran so great until it overheated.

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It could still be the timing is slow, try advancing the timing until it starts to rough up and then back it off until it runs smoothly. Just a thought to try.


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PeterV Offline OP
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Well, it wasn't fixed as good as I thought. Started it up the other day and BAM right to 212! I played with it a bit and said done and left it. I had run some radiator flush/cleaner through it which didn't do anything. Got too frustrated and didn't want to do something stupid and screw it up more. Tossed and turned for 2 nights wondering what it could be and dreading that it was the head gasket. I decided I was going to get it fixed today no matter what. I took off all the hoses and took out the thermostat. I started by filling the radiator with water. It was draining VERY slowly. I was expecting it to be free flowing considering that I had already flushed and back flushed it the other day. Obviously, a blockage. I blocked the upper hose connection an put the garden hose on full and backflushed it again. Water came out the top of the radiator but not at any great rate. The cap from the antifreeze container fits perfectly over the bottom radiator hose nipple. I drilled a hole in the cap and put it on. I took my compressor and blew air from the bottom to the top of the radiator. Water went everywhere. I filled it back up and the water came through the hole in the cap like a slow running water fountain. I filled it again and blew it out again and the rusty water came out somewhat stronger. Making progress. I did it a few more times and by the end the water was spewing out of the hole in the cap out of the engine compartment onto the front fender and no rusty water. I guess the radiator is free and clear. I flushed the heater and the block until all ran clear. I put everything back together and filled with water. I started the car and instead of overheating in 10 minutes, it took 40 minutes to get to 180. I let it run for over an hour and it never passed 180. WHOOPIE! I examined some of the crap that came out of the radiator when I backflushed it and it seemed to be soft fibrous material. I also noticed when I shut the car off, the water pump was leaking out of the shaft. Putting 2 and 2 together I figured the stuff that was in the radiator was the packing for the pump. Didn't know the packing would come apart and go into the radiator. So when I repack the pump, I should be all set to go. Just a coincidence that the packing came apart and blocked the radiator the same day that I tweaked the distributor. Chased my tail for a week but finally done. Thanks all for all the tips and advice. Pete V

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Glad you figured it out and got it fixed!


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Pete,
I'm puzzled as to how packing material could get into the cooling system. If it did, I would say there is damage to your pump

.Mike


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That does seem strange doesn't it.

Too much water pump grease forced past the packing will apparently plug a radiator, although I've never had it happen myself.


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PeterV Offline OP
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Hello everyone,
I did the evaporust. After a few days of idling until it started to overheat then shut it off until cold and repeat a few hours later, I drained it out. It was very black. I refilled the block with water and repeated the process a couple of more times to flush out the rest of the evaporust. Finally came out clean water. Was still overheating but not as fast. Determined that the radiator was still semi clogged. When adding water had to pour it in slow and wait for the radiator to fill. I pulled off a heater hose and filled through the radiator until water came out the hose. Took my compressor at 100psi and burst air through it. It backflushed the radiator from the bottom up. Pieces of insulation and seat stuffing etc. came flying out of the top of the radiator. Kept doing short blasts until there was no more water in the block. Refilled and repeated about 5 or 6 times until no more stuff came out. Refilled it with water and let it idle for almost an hour. Didn't pass 180 degrees. let it cool and then took it for a ride. I have a 165 thermostat in it. Didn't go above that. Lost no water. I noticed that when I poured water into the radiator it took it as fast as I could pour it in. Seems to be clean and clear now. Tomorrow I will backflush it one last time and fill it with antifreeze. I think I'm good. Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.

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Sounds like some mice were busy some time back!


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Way to go, Pete. Another '35 Standard hits the street.

Mike


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