I'm restoring a 29 series LQ 1.5 ton truck. The truck does not run, but when sitting the steering seems okay, no excessive play in my opinion, but I thought I'd open up the gear box and remove the old oil/grease and refill with new. Upon doing so I found a chewed up piece of metal (pic attached) that I'm guessing is a Worm Thrust Ball Bearing Retainer. But there were no loose balls! If this mystery part is indeed the Retainer, shouldn't there be a symptom(s)? If so, what? I'm hoping a PO replaced this bearing and didn't fish out the old Retainer. Probably wishful thinking, but before I break something that doesn't need fixing I thought I'd ask the Forum.
Just in case I need one, I did a quick search of The Filling Station's and Gary Wallace's on-line catalogs, but didn't find this Worm Thrust Bearing. Supplier Suggestions? I also looked for the 'paper' gaskets or shims (some were damaged in places), but also with no luck. Can they be fabricated? Or can I use a gasket dope in the damaged areas to prevent/reduce leakage? Suggestions? Lastly (for now) ,does this design have a seal to prevent leakage at the Pitman Arm Shart? I don't see one in my 8/1/1930 parts catalog.
If it were me I would worry about it unless I went through it all the way just to make sure there are no other issues. You will probably have to make the gaskets. There have been posts about machining some steering boxes so they can except a modern seal but I am not sure if they were 29. Someone who knows will jump on here with the info soon.
Typically there is no seal on the pitman shaft. There are many posts about rebuilding these old boxes and which grease to use.
The box is designed so there is very small clearance between the pitman shaft and the bushing. The lubricant is fairly thick (on the order of 600w oil) so very little seeps past the shaft.
Over time the bushing does wear so more grease can leak out. Eventually the box does run dry and everything wears.
If I remember correctly the ”˜29 steering box is supposed to use 600w oil. Not only is it fairly thick, it really clings to the gears and other parts.
Some forum members make their own steering gear lubricant. They mix regular gear lube (GL5 85w-140) and chassis grease (NGLI 2) to make a thickened but pourable blend.
Last edited by Rusty 37 Master; 03/31/2101:41 PM. Reason: Spelling
I use a mixture of John Deere Corn Head Grease and 600w oil in the steering boxes of my two old trucks. The Corn grease alone does not flow well in a steering box because it does not get very warm.
I'd say my mixture is 80% grease and 20% oil. It steers well and does not leak out the 93 year old bushing. ;-)
Cheers, Dean
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
I agree with Dean. Corn head grease (NGLI 0) alone is too thick for a steering gear. Some people use cotton spindle grease (NGLI 00).
You want something that will flow into the steering box. I spent the money and bought the Penn-Rite steering gear lube. Now that I have done that I think you can do as well mixing your own.
Remember that any of today's lubricants you put in these old vehicles is way better than what was available when they were designed and manufactured. Plus very few of us will ever put lots of miles on these vehicles.
Thanks guys for the lube info. Based on my earlier review of posts, I procured JD Corn Head Grease and planned to mix my own. Thanks Dean for the proportion of grease to 600w. Thanks Rusty 37 for the bushing / pitman shaft description. Based on your description and the minimal leakage I've had, I do not think this will be an issue.
I am now most concerned with the chewed up piece of metal (see pic in initial post) I found while cleaning out the old grease in preparation for adding my 'mix'. It looks like a chewed up Worm Thrust Ball Bearing Retainer to me. Do you agree? If this is indeed the Worm Thrust Ball Bearing Retainer, shouldn't there be loose balls and a noticeable sympton?
I agree that it looks like a ball bearing ball separator (not necessarily a retainer). Its purpose is to keep the balls equally distributed around the races and prevent them from rotating against each other. I am still thinking about what would have to happen to cause that damage.
The balls are trapped between the 2 races. They will fall out when you take the box apart.
Thanks for thinking about this Rusty. Before taking the box apart and losing all functionality, I'd like to first procure the bearing. My Aug 1, 1930 parts list appears to describe the bearing as two parts, 551414 (Worm Thrust Balls & Retainer) and 551413 (Worm Thrust Ball Race). In addition to Gary Wallace, I'm waiting to hear from Timken. Any other suggestions?
Wash any existing lube off the worm & sector gears,replace them in the housing and check for play between the teeth.There are a couple of us(Bluezone in Norway & myself in Australia)who have made the sector gear to worm gear clearance fully adjustable.PM me if you want to know my method.
Why not set the steering box up in a lathe and machine the radiused tapered seat out that's machined in the cast housing,and just fit a nominal size readily available thrust bearing,and do the same to the screw in end plug?
I finally disassembled my gear box (pulling the steering wheel was the challenge!) and confirmed that the 'chewed up piece of metal' I found earlier when replacing the grease was indeed the ball bearing retainer from the lower end of the Main Shaft. See attached 'exploded' photo.
Bruce, In my novice opinion the races look okay, so for now, I really need the Ball and Retainer portion (pn 551414) of the bearing assembly. However, I also discovered what I consider to be excessive play between the lower end of the Main Shaft and the Gear Adjusting Plug bushing. See attached 'Zoom' photo of this portion of the assembly. The play between the Main Shaft and the (upper) Case bushing could also stand to be improved. Are these the bushings you found? If so, I'm interested. I'll give you a call.
On the subject of locating the needed Ball and Retainer pn 551414, I found some replacement bearing part numbers (SKF pn 51104 and Nice Co (?) pn N-36) mentioned in 2015 and 2016 forum threads that I'm researching.
Hopefully some of the ”˜29 experts will offer guidance.
Maybe I am looking at things incorrectly. It looks like the steering shaft has a lot of wear on the short stub just below the gear as well as a few inches above the gear.
If the gear itself is serviceable you might consider having those areas on the shaft spray welded and turned to size.
Hi Rusty, I'm afraid you're seeing things correctly. I picked up NOS bushings from Bruce and he agreed with your assessment and suggestion. I will be visiting my machinist this week.
I missed that you are in the Richmond area. So getting parts and first hand advice from Bruce is easy. I have done that numerous times over the years when I am visiting family in Richmond.
Hi Rusty, I just got back from visiting both my machinist and Bruce in regards to my worn main shaft. Bruce has been a great resource of parts and is very generous in sharing his knowledge with a newbie like myself. I live about 15 miles south of Bruce in Richmond proper. Maybe we can meet when you return to Richmond in the future.
Just in case someone else is looking for the steering gear box thrust bearing...
United Bearing (sales@unitedbearingcompany.com) fixed me up with bearing pn N-36. It was an exact replacement as near as I could tell. Just fyi...they only sell through distributors and gave me 3 in the Richmond VA area to contact. One distributor said they couldn't sell to me because I disclosed I wanted it for an automotive application. Liability issues! One distributor said the pn was for a 'nut'. The third distributor came through for me!
I'm running into the similar trouble finding bearings for my1928 truck steering box. When I disassembled it I found one bearing in tacked (see pic) and the other in pieces with the balls in the bottom of the case. I called sales@unitedbearingcompany.com but they weren't able to help me. I see a reference to part # 51104 above. That's the only # I find any hits on. Does anyone know if that correct?
Attached is the invoice from my local distributor (ISSI) describing the 3 piece thrust bearing (pn "N-36") that came from United Bearing Company (UBC) in Texas. It came in a UBC box and was clearly labeled "N 36". I only bought one bearing to replace the damaged one. Attached is a pic of the original, good bearing. I failed to take a pic of the N-36, but it was an exact match as best as I could tell.
I you like, I will reach out to UBC and/or my local distributor to see if the N-36 is still available. And if you provide your dimensions, I can try to confirm that the N-36 is indeed what you need.
That would be awesome thanks Larry. The pic's looks like a match. ID= 13/16 OD= 1 inch 3/8 and W = 1/4. If you local local distributor still has them can you provide their contact info. Maybe I can order through them and have it shipped to me.
I tried calling sales@unitedbearingcompany.com (UBC) again today and asked them to look for both the item number and the PN and couldn't find either. I sensed they are getting a little frustrated with me calling them. If you share the name of you distributor that might work. Also I forgot to mention that the W =1/4 is the bearing only not the bearing & the race together.
