VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Problems With My Fresh 216 Engine

As we age we all seem to be missing a few brain cells. Glad to know I wasn't the only one thinking about my timing gear being installed wrong. In my case I was one or two gear notches off. A lesson learned, and never to be forgotten. Not fun pulling the engine and the harmonic balancer, etc.

Good luck, Mike

Charlie, the best I can do is a 357 but I'm close to that. Every time I think I have it nailed, something else pops up. It's like a never ending Whack-A-Mole game that I can't abort.

I've gone back and looked at things again. A couple of things to add. Runs with choke 1/3 closed and throttle 1/4 open. Dies if I change that configuration. That's as slow as it runs. Which I guess must be around 600 to 800 rpm. The timing is another factor. It is advanced to where the ball is not visible. If I adjust toward zero degrees, it will shudder and die. Advance timing again and it starts right up. I previously checked the marks on the cam and crank gears. Putting my cupped hand over the barrel loosely increases gas flow from the nozzle and also speeds and smoothes the engine. I've plugged the vacuum inlets- no change. Ran a propane torch over the intakes- no difference. New intake gaskets and new sheet metal rings on intakes, so I checked the torque on the bolts- all good. I thought I might find something before I take the primary jet out. Gene, I did try the 3x4 cross backfire probably 8 or 10 times- didn't work this time. But I appreciate the chance to try it. It's on to the jet unless someone can add some wisdom to this quest. I really appreciate everyone helping.
Roger

Do you have a spare condenser you could try since it's easy? When flaky they can cause a wild range of symptoms...

I do have one. I'll try it. Thanks, Roger

It still could be a carburetor problem....such as metering rod or restricted passages.

I will again encourage you to do some type of temporary carburetor swap. Either put your carb on a similar engine that is running well or put a different carb on your engine.

I wonder what the compression psig when measured in each cylinder.

The timing situation has my attention now. Since I've put the light on it and it won't even run on zero degrees and not even with the ball in sight in the window. Put the ball on the indicator and it dies. Do I have the distributor in one gear off? I can't advance the distributor enough because the lube knob strikes the spark advance. Is that a valid question?
Thanks, Roger

Befoe you pull the distributor up change all the plug wires one notch to compensate.

I would line the pointer up with the ball and check to see where the distributor rotor is pointing. If it is not pointing at #1 or #6 wire tower your distributor or wires need to be moved so that so it does. if it does line up with 1 or 6 timing is not the problem and you're going to have to fiddle with the low speed jet and idle part of the carb. I do have a spare carb but I'm over in Shreveport. If you want to talk about your problem I'm at 318.798.0493. I'm surprised CarbKing hasn't come up for air w/ this problem. I've has a '40 since 1963 and have put about 360K miles on it so have encountered about every imaginable problem and some unimaginable.

Your problem screams timing to me. Not sure but the last two suggestions seem to be good advise. And yes being one tooth off on the distributor produces the same symptoms you are experiencing.

Mike, it's possible to move all the wires one hole ccw and have the room I need for timing adjustments. Don't know that will solve any problem though since I could not get it to run at 0 degree setting anyway. I'll sure give it a try though. How likely would it be to have a new cam that was incorrectly ground?
Thanks Roger

Chipper, I believe its on tooth off because of the advanced timing necessary just to get it running and the fact that it won't run on 0 degrees at all.
Thanks, I'll let y'all know how it comes out Monday.
Roger

If I remember correctly 2 teeth on the gear at the cam drive is the same as 1 position on the cap. So moving the plug wires 1 position around will most likely too much if timing is the problem.
Tony

I had a similar problem with a 37 . I had left it with a shop to get king pins installed and it was there for awhile . They put off my job to get to other work . While there someone moved the wires around one position . I guess they were kidding around but it ran bad but would run . It backfired while cranking it and busted the starter rear housing . After trying everything ( points , condenser , coil , plugs etc. ) I had the wife watch for the timing mark while I turned the engine . There it was . One plug wire hole off . After several weeks and about 200 bucks , it was running sweet again .

Wonderful news about the problems I'm having with my engine. Mike Deeter came over from Shreveport in the rain and subbed a carb he has for mine. It worked and at the same time proved there is something wrong with mine at low speed. I also had dropped the distributor in one tooth ahead of where it should be. Once those two things were addressed, it purrs like a kitten. Now I still have to find what is stopping up my carb. That's tomorrow. I can't thank Mike enough for helping me out of this two pronged problem. And a big thanks to all who paid attention here on the site.
Regards, Roger

Roger,
Mike Deeter did the same thing for me September 2015, except it was a hot and humid Louisiana day. He drove all the way from Shreveport with his 1940 Special Deluxe on a trailer. I was able to study his car to help with my restoration.

He helped me start my freshly rebuilt 216 for the first time. The engine seemed to almost start, but would hesitate, “burp” and then stop. After trouble shooting and thinking the problem through, he suggested it was a timing problem. Guess what, the distributor was off by one tooth. After we got it running, we had some bursts of radiator fluid gush out. Maybe hot air pockets? This eventually cleared up. After the engine warmed up and was running smoothly, he showed me how to adjust the valves while the engine ran.

I can’t thank Mike Deeter enough for the help he gave me. He has a wealth of knowledge for the 1940. His 1940 Special Deluxe is beautiful.

This VCCA site has helped tremendously with my restoration. Many thanks to all participants that help others.

Curt

Seems to be a long standing habit of Mike's, doesn't it? He and many others from VCCA have been invaluable to me in trying to make a faithful resto of my 1940 Master 85.
Regards, Roger