VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Body - Sheet Metal, Paint & Wood 41-48 Windshield glass

Thought I would start a new post specific to the glass in the windshield. I bought new glass from Bob's Classic Auto Cars. The quality looks great, edges are well rounded, great shipping packaging, and had it to me in about a week.

I can not overemphasize that I am making this installation on a Master Deluxe which means not dealing with the stainless trim around each pane of glass. This should make the job easier!! Also be vigilant about following the directions in your BODY manual and doing a search of past posts to create your data base of knowledge.

From my above post you should have realized that I do believe in pre-fitting all my Steele rubber pieces so I can visualize how everything goes together and how good the fit should be.

The first thing the 41 Body Manual recommends is that you pre-fit the glass to identify any areas of the pinch-weld that do not fit flush with the glass. Pre-fitting means not having the weatherstrip on the glass as you align it to the pinch-weld. The concern is if the pinch-weld does not conform well to the glass the glass might crack. They are so worried about the glass cracking that they want you to use a feeler gauge to locate potential problem areas. If I would have known how critical this was I would have done all the checking before having the body painted. They further recommend that all obstructions like old glue be removed.

Being curious I decided to compare the size of my old glass to the my new ones. As you can see in the first picture there is a major difference, About 1/8th of an inch has been grown off the entire edge of my old glass. So I am wondering if Bob's might have provided me too large of a glass? Fortunately, I had saved a glass from a car I had salvaged so used it to confirm that Bob's glass was of the same dimension. So it might be possibly to use the original dimension glass!!

My next step was to use this old glass to pre-fit the alignment along the pinch-weld. A previous post recommend using a suction cup to help manage the glass. I bought one at Home Depot for around $7.00. I think I will find that this will be an awesome investment (see picture below).

Next I attempted to fit the glass on the inside of the pinch-weld. The glass was so large that it would not fit flush with the metal Windshield Division Reinforcement that I had welded in. The welds needed to be grown down. (another thing I should have done before sending the car out for painting). The pictures below show the problem.

Today's job will be to do some more pre-fitting of the glass against the pinch-weld, cleanup irregularities on the inside pinch-weld, and install half of the Windshield Rubber Weatherstrip on a glass pane (I will use soapy water and a paint brush as an applicator to help install the glass in the weatherstrip). I intend to do only one window pane so I can check its alignment for fit. If I can see no way the new glass will fit because of the size it has stretched the weatherstrip I will remove the glass and have it ground down. I am also curious to know if the tack strips will be in the way of the weatherstrip.

My Question for today is should I spare myself a lot of bother by just grinding 1/8th of an inch off of the glass edges?

Appreciate everyones advice, Thanks, Mike


As mentioned above my old glass is about 1/4" smaller. The closeup lens of the camera makes it appear much more.


A suction cup helps to handle the glass. I bought two so one could be used on both sides of the glass.


Welds needed to b ground down to get the glass to fit against the pinch-weld.


Still have more cleanup along the inside of the pinch-weld, and probably will need to remove the tack strip to accommodate the installation of the weatherstrip.

Mike

Fit check your glass size with it in the gasket. Glass size will be dependent on the groove depth in the gasket. I have done mine twice and the last time the groove in the gasket from Steele was more shallow than the old gasket and I had to take the glass back and get it ground down. Its difficult to get it sized right if the groove is shallower.

I did not have to remove the headliner tack strip on mine but it is a '40 and the configuration may be different.

Use great care when you install your interior moldings. Tighten the screws as evenly as you can. I have never had a windshield crack after it was installed but have cracked 1 while installing due to not paying attention to screw tightening.

HI Mike,

I really appreciate your help on this. I have been checking old posts on windshield installation in our index. A couple weeks ago I started pasting posts of interest to my word processing program to help me understand better the installation process. Your article in 2004 was the best I found. Your awesome. To help others I am providing a link to your post when you responded to a question by BigBob.

1940 Special Deluxe Windshield Installation

Best Wishes, Mike

P.S. Wish I was there a few weeks ago when you and Curt Kennedy got his 40 started.

Just an update on my front window installation. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I ended up installing the window without any assistance. The challenge was getting the window installed without damaging the rubber seal. This was where I failed. I used a lot of soapy water but was unable to overcome the abrasiveness of pulling the 1/4" rope to get the seal over the pinch weld. Until I have some more help solving this I do not want to publish the steps I used to damage my seal.

I have two theories on how to not repeat the problem on the rear window. The first is to not dilute my soap and apply it liberally to all surfaces. What if the pinch weld has a good coat of soap, same with the rubber flap that goes over the pinch weld. and the rope is saturated? My second theory is what if I did the same using just the sealer. I know the mess would be exceptional but I have never shied away from a mess?

I also now recognize that the larger the glass is the harder it is to pull the rubber weatherstrip flap over the pinch weld. So I should have heeded Mike Deeter's advise about Steele Weatherstrips having a glass groove two shallow to accommodate windshield glass that is not ground down.

Please help with comments, Mike







You can see by this picture and the next that the rubber flap can not be stretched enough to cover all of the pinch weld at the top of the window or bottom.


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I am not a glass expert and don't have any experience with the 41-48 however reading your post I was surprised that you used a 1/4" rope. To me that seems too large and not "slippery" enough. The truck shop I worked at (parts dept) installed glass windshieds etc. always using regular electrical wire. Not sure what size but probably #14 or #16. Being vinyl coated and smaller I believe it would eliminate some of the strain on the rubber.

Can't help you with advise on this but can pass on a humorous story. Friend of mine installed a windshield in his antique car using plenty of soap. About a month or so after, while out for a ride, it started to rain. Before long he had soap bubbles coming out around the glass & weather stripping both inside and outside. We all had quite a laugh and told him Lawrence Welk would loved to have the car when he needed another bubble machine.

Dick

Soapy water is not nearly slippery enough. Rubber lube, such as used at tire shops is very slippery, but dries out too fast for glass installation. The old body men I know used to use linseed oil. It is very slippery and does not dry out for several days. Once dry, it also helps seal. I think 1/4" rope is probably larger than necessary. 1/8" should be sufficient. I think the idea of electrical wire has merit.

I know from experience at the other end of the spectrum, too thin a rope will cut into the rubber.

What type of rope did you use? I used cotton rope and it slid out just fine without soap or oil on a 1936.

While I havent yet done a 2 piece windscreen I have done several 1 piece units and had success with electrical wire with WD40 as a lube, the copper provides the strength while the plastic coating is reasonable "slippery". I have seen professional installers use 3/16" cotton rope without lube as well but I havent been that adventurous.
Tony

After a lot of thought I think my problem is the sizes of my glass and windshield rubber. I am agreeing with Mike Deeter that the best solution is to grind down the glass. I am thinking about a 1/4 inch off the front glass and 3/16ths off the back. The more tight the rubber is on the glass the harder it is to get the rubber flap over the pinch weld with a nice fit.

I am also going to do a better job of lubricating my rope, pinch weld and rubber. No diluting my soap with water. I am even researching using a product called P-80 a special lubricant for use on rubber? Has anytone used it. A chemist friend and car guy is recommending it. It comes in about a 6 ounce tube and is not real expensive.

I have another friend with a large stationary belt grinder mounted on a metal stand. I wonder if I should ask him to grind the glass or should I stick with a regular glass company? Has anyone ground their own glass. I have seen it done at my ACE Hardware. The guy wears gloves, eye protection, and maybe an apron? Maybe I could even have them do it for me?

Thanks Mike

I would be careful about reducing the size of the glass in case you go too far. Talk to your local glazier but I think most belt sanders are suitable but may need special belt for glass, if you have easy access all the better as you may only 1/16" reduction for correct fit.
Tony

Glass company for grinding, and use the old glass you showed us earlier as a pattern. Give me a call @ 318-789-0394 after 11:30 CST. Good luck.

I would have a professional glass company install it if it were mine. There are lots of things you can learn while restoring a car, but sometimes its best (and less costly) to have a professional help.

Mike, quit guessing! Tape the weatherstripping in place as you did before. Have it fitting as well as possible. Then take a few measurements. Measure the opening, top to bottom in three places. At the inside, middle, and outside. Then the width at the top and bottom. OR, place a piece of cardboard over the opening and trace the opening hole onto the cardboard to make a template.

Next, measure the depth of the slot in the weatherstripping. Add that to the template and you will have the MAXIMUM size of the glass. Then subtract 1/16 all around for some play and a place for the sealer. Done! And it will fit your opening.


Now, take some of your own advice. You always recommend to folks to get a manual and study it. Follow your manual and or the instruction that came with the parts or products that you are using. You have no knowledge of how any of the suggest products will interact with the products that you will be using. Stick to the instructions and recommended products. Steele knows their business.

Harsh, maybe, but true.

Use a glass company by all means. They use a diamond belt. Less heat and chipping.

One last bit of advice. Clean out that stuff you put along the pinch weld along where the dash goes. You need a clean 90 degree area for the glaze and the weatherstripping to pull up nice and tight. If you haven't already?

Sorry for procrastinating and not updating my front windshield installation sooner. I did end up biting the bullet and redoing my installation with another new weatherstrip from Steele. I will not be going through all the steps because many are included in my post on installing my rear window. So please refer to this for my best practices. Also remember to read through my advice on installing the stainless piece that covers the division bar in the center of the windshield.

41-48 Rear glass Installation

41-48 Vertical Windshield divide

Using the same techniques as I used for the back window I successfully installed the front glass with minimal scaring of the rubber flap. Best practices include, body off frame, making sure the metal pinch weld was sanded smooth, using thick electrical tape to cover the edge of the rubber weatherstrip flap, applying a lot of soap strait from the bottle, applying sealer after the installation, repairing light blemishes with fine sandpaper.

Also remember the importance of creating your own database of knowledge whether from your manual, VCCA chat posts, friends, or local glass installation businesses. All this will enable you to make up your own plan. The plan should include doing the work yourself, and remembering the importance of patience. Because of the nature of rubber you should also schedule plenty of uninterrupted time. The rubber will probably mar if left in a pinched position for a short time.

A friend had installation problems with the rubber weatherstrip he got from Chevs of the 40’s. It is possible that the quality of weatherstrips vary. Saving a few dollars could not be worth it. On the other hand I took a perfectly good Steele weatherstrip and made a mess of it by using poor installation techniques!!!

My local glass shop would not grind down my tempered glass edges to make the glass fit more easily. They were concerned that the heat caused by the grinding might cause the glass to shatter. Although I thought my glass was too big in reality it fit fine. A lot of my fit problems were probably caused by my division bar not being welded flush with the outermost edge of the pinch weld.

It does make a difference in the size of the rope you insert under the weatherstrip flap. The more you can get the flap to stick out (away from the center rubber) the easier it is to get the flap to lift up over the top of the pinch weld. So I would stick with the 1/4 inch cotton rope. You want to enable the rubber flap to be raised over the pinch weld with the least amount of friction.

Be especially careful to create a smooth surface on the interior side of your pinch weld. Any jagged protrusions will penetrate your tape or pull the tape off of the rubber. This will cause cuts and blemishes in your job.

Minor rubber imperfections can be lightly sanded out with a very fine sandpaper. While a certain amount of sheen on the rubber will be removed you can restore it with Armor All. Even the friction of your finger rubbing on a mar will improve the rubber’s surface.

How I applied the tape to the rubber flap.



The glass ready for installation with the tools I used.




My finished installation.




Good luck, MIke