VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1929 Engine Timing/ Tune-Up [Plan of Action]

OK, in Doing a Simple Engine Tune-UP & Setting the timing on the 1929... [Based on the Rough Running and such from this posting & Video 1929 Rough Running/ Sounding... Any Thoughts ??

Here is my Current plan of action:
Based on reading the forum and recommendations on here

Oil Pan Gasket
-- Drain Oil & Inspect for Metal particles/ Other Contaminants
-- Check Lower Half of Engine
---- Rods, Bearings, Dippers, Oil Lines, Oil Pump
-- Clean Pan Gasket Surface (Pan & Engine)
-- Inspect & Check Dipper Clearance (What Should This Be ? & Best Way to Check this)
-- Install New Oil Pan Gasket Set
---- per discussion: Replacing Oil Pan Gasket on a 1929... Thoughts
-- Fill with oil [10w-30]
Plugs & Wires
-- Remove, Inspect & Check
-- Regap Plugs to .040" [AC Delco C-86 Plugs]
Points, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Coil, Condensor
-- Inspect & Check
-- Set Point Gap to .018" per recommendation
Valves COLD SET
-- Inspect & Check w/ Engine Cold
-- Check Each Cylinder & both Valves on Each Cylinder when that Cylinder is TDC (Under Compression Stroke, when both valves are CLOSED)
---- Set Intake Clearance to .006"
---- Set Exhaust Clearance to .008"
Test Fire Engine/ Warm-Up
-- Fire Up Engine (Cross Fingers for Starting Up & Running)
-- Set Timing
Timing
-- Check & Set to 18 deg (Per Recommendations on Here)
-- Warm-Up to Operating Temperature
-- Shut Down Engine & Check/ Set Valves at Temperature
Valves HOT SET
-- Inspect & Check w/ Engine Warmed up
-- Check Each Cylinder & both Valves on Each Cylinder when that Cylinder is TDC (Under Compression Stroke, when both valves are CLOSED)
---- Set Intake Clearance to .006"
---- Set Exhaust Clearance to .008"

Also Will Replace These Gaskets while I am in there:
Push Rod Gasket
-- Per Discussion here:1929-31 Push Rod Gasket Set
Valve Cover Gasket
-- Seems Stright forward, remove existing, clean up surfaces on Engine & Cover, Install New Gasket.
-- Should I install any form of sealant or Adhesive, i.e. Permatex No 2, and if so on which surface, Engine or Cover ??

I have a few questions:
1- Checking the current Timing before I start the above Plan of Action
When I have Cylinder 1 @ TDC (under Compression Stroke), I should be able to see the 12 deg Timing Mark in the window, IF the timing is relatively close, if not it should at least be just outside the window ?? Is this correct ?? Thinking before i set the timing this would be a good way to check to see if the timing is even close ?? or is there a better way to do this ??

2- Anything else I am missing or should look into while doing this ??

Yes.

Ok, got the Connecting Rod bearing clearances set and bottom end pretty much done, looking for 1929 Oil Pump Suction Pipe Screen & Spring so I can close it up and write that off.

Now about setting the timing per question 1 above:
Junkyard Dog confirmed this is correct

So I have piston 1 set at TDC top dead center, under compression (confirmed with compression guage) Flywheel Timing Mark @ 12deg, (Freshly painted timing marks for visibility). Now when I have this set where should my Rotor be pointed (Distributor) ?? My thought it should be pointed towards Plug 1. based on the 1929 Repair Manual and vairous postings on here the Firing order should be 1-5-3-6-2-4, and this is the order the plugs should be connected with Plug 1 being located approximately at 5 O'clock, going clockwise for the remainder. Looking like this: Distributor Firing Order Diagram however this is where my Rotor/ Distributor Sits with this configuration: Rotor Location at TDC & Rotor Removed at TDC Looks like it is getting ready to fire Number 6 !! Well in my case with teh mixed up wiring would be firing number 3 :/

Am I Correct so far: YES or NO ?!?

If so I found on issue already, that being that they have the Number 3 & Number 6 plugs reversed, so they are currently firing 1-5-6-3-2-4, which may be a major cause in 1929 Rough Running/ Sounding... Any Thoughts ?? and the knocking/ tapping hopefully was from improper bearing clearances which i have already addressed and fixed Replacing Oil Pan Gasket on a 1929... Thoughts.

Then continue on with my 1929 Engine Timing/ Tune-Up [Plan of Action]

The rotor should be pointing to number one on the distributor. If it is pointing to number 6 go around again until number one is on compression, the timing is set on 12 degrees, and the rotor is pointing to number one on the distributor. Then, check your firing order on the distributor.....which is 1 5 3 6 2 4. If two of the spark plug wires are reversed, put them in the right order.

My thoughts only as I'll let JYD give you his expert advise. I would lift the distributor and turn the shaft 180 degrees and then reset the plug wires in the proper order. As for the knocking/tapping its possible some or much of the noise could be attributed to the improper wiring of the firing order.

OK, sounds like a good Approach

I have Piston 1 @ TDC on the Compression Stroke (using a compression gauge, rotated the engine a few times to find out when it was under compression, i.e. compression gauge reading rises) the distributor should be pointing at Number 1 Plug on Distributor while the timing mark is at 12 deg.

So looks like i need to pull out Distributor and rotate 180 degrees, so that it is pointing at Number 1 not Number 6.

Swapping the wire is cake, only takes a few seconds.

It is amazing that the engine ran, but hey... hoping it runs smoother once i get it all done and back together.

End result would be to have piston 1 at TDC (Compression Stroke) timing window reading 12 deg, and distributo rotor pointing at the number 1 Plug Wire. Agreed ??

I agree . Looks like you have a good handle on things and your engine should sound like an entirely different one than before.

Sounds like a plan.

Well had some time last night to get back and work on the timing mainly the distributor & wires, after I Painted & Primed some parts, and applied some Resin/ Epoxy to my Valve Cover

I removed the Distributor, rotated it 180 degrees so that the Rotor points to the number with Piston 1 set at TDC (Top Dead Center), under compression, & Flywheel Timing Mark @ 12deg. Here is what my Distributor and Rotor Looks like at this setting: Rotor/ Distributor Pict. I also swapped my mixed up Plug Wires so they are now in the correct order for Firing 1-5-3-6-2-4.

Guess my next step would be to Set the Valve Clearances (COLD).

The rotor should be pointing at the 5:30/6:00 O'clock position which would be just to the right of the notch on the distributor body.

If I recall, the rotor button points to #1 plug wire when the flywheel is at TDC, and not when it is at 12 BDTC. So you get TDC mark right on the timing pointer and then pull dist out and rotate rotor button and place back in so button points to #1, i.e. the notch in distributor body, at about 6pm. Once this geometry is set, then you establish actual timing of engine to fire at 12 degrees BTDC (as factory) or up to 18D BTDC as suggested here, by loosening the screw/nut on distributor mounting plate and rotating a few degrees.

Having said all that, I had an experienced veteran of these engines listen to mine on the weekend at a car show. I had mine set at 40-18-18BTDC as per recommendations here. As suggested, while these new specs provide better performance with modern gasolines, smooth starting can be compromised a bit. The veteran felt 18 BTDC was too much spark advance for mine, and he backed it off a couple of degrees and it seemed to run smoother and start easier. I know JYD and others acknowledge some fine tinkering with these settings may be necessary depending on each engine, the carb settings, compression etc.

You may want to start yours up using the factory specs (28 18 12BTDC) and once you have it running, then experiment going towards 40-18-18BTDC. The veteran felt the upper half of my engine sounded perfect (valve train etc), but there appeared to be some "piston slap" and although engine was running OK, felt it would be a worthwhile exercise to have someone pull off oil pan and check fit of components in bottom of engine, especially the 3 mains and rods. Oh well, what's another $1,000 or so!

If I am interpretting Correcly:

-Turn the Flywheel to align TDC Mark (Top Dead Center) (0 Deg of Timing) with Pin in window. Also Piston 1 should be at TDC under Compression Stroke

-Then remove the Distributor and rotate shaft so that the rotor points to the center of the NOTCH, Noted in RED in Rotor Location Picture, center would be noted in Green as 6 O'Clock.

*Is this NOTCH Directly under Plug Wire 1 ?? Thought Plug 1 was closest to the Screw in the side of the Distributor, near 4:30/ 5:00 ??

*Where should this notch be located in relation to the engine ?? parallel as is in the picture or should it be off to the right or left ??Also at this step, should the points be closed or open, I figure they should be open completely ??

The rotor should point to number one cylinder when the timing mark is set at 12 BCTC.

Where should Number 1 Cylinder be in relation to the Rotor Location and this NOTCH ??

What is BCTC ??

As Dawg says get flywheel at 12BTDC (12 degrees before top dead center). With Dist secured in place and with cap on, note which is #1 plug wire, and place a mark (piece of tape) on distributor body exactly where the center of the #1 plug wire is (should be about 6pm, or near notch. It is not anywhere near screw on side of housing).

Now remove the distributor cap and see where rotor is pointing. It should be pointing directly at the piece of tape you just put on the Dist housing. If not, pull Dist out of block and rotate rotor/shaft (but not the housing) so it is pointing a couple of degrees west (rearward) of the taped #1 spot on housing. Now note the angle of the slot on bottom of distributor shaft, and using a screwdriver, reach into shaft housing on block and rotate oil pump shaft so the end of the oil shaft will mesh with the slot on end of dist shaft. Also confirm thrust washer is there between dist and oil pump shafts.

Now carefully re-insert distributor into housing keeping rotor button just west of #1 and you will see rotor button turn a couple of degrees as it engages cam gears (helical cut) and meshes with oil pump shaft. It took me 2 or 3 tries to get oil pump shaft and dist shaft lined up just right for this step, and if they are not real close, the distrbutor will not go fully down into housing. You know it is fully down when the distributor mounting plate sits fully down on the block. Installed correctly this way the rotor button should be pointing directly at #1 (your piece of tape). Install the spring loaded mounting screw (with washer and spring)and tighten right down until shoulder on this screw seats against block.

Finally, now you can attend to fine tuning the timing. First set point gap by moving flywheel until one of the lobes on the dist shaft has opened points to their maximum. Set at 18 thou using adjustment screws on breaker plate.

Keep spark advance cable fully advanced (pushed into dash fully)and loosen the screw/nut on side of Dist near grease cup, and rotate distributor housing a couple of degrees as necessary to get final timimng somewhere where you want it (range between 12 and 18 degrees BTDC).

I just finished doing this exercise for my 1930 engine, and Dawg's and Chipper's and Bill's help taught me all of this. So any errors are all their fault!!

awesome... Not gonna blame anyone, it is all a learning experienceand all of you guys have been a HUGE HELP !!

Does it matter where the number one plug wire plugsinto the distributor cap in relation to the NOTCH on the cap ?? or as long as I have all the Plugs in Firing Order & that the rotor is pointing to plug wire 1 when cylinder 1 is set to 12 deg BTDC under compression.

As stated above earlier today in a previous post:



It is BTDC, not BCTC and it means "Before Top Dead Center.

Got it Now...
1-Plug Wires are Connected in Firing Order
2-Cylinder 1 is at TDC under Compression
3-Flywheel Mark of 12 deg in the Timing window in line with pin/ indicator
3-Rotor Pointing at plug wire 1 on the Distributor

Great start. As you may know, the flywheel goes around twice 720 degrees) for each full rotation of the distributor (360 degrees). A change of 6 degrees on the flywheel (from 12 BTDC to 18BTDC) only rotates the distributor 3 degrees, effectively 1/120th of a full rotation. So it does not take very much of a rotation of the distributor to get from 12 degrees advance to 18 degrees advance, perhaps 1/10 of an inch at the outer circumference of the cap. At least that's what I understand from the experts.

Thought I would share, this was my Documentation from Rhode Island Wiring Service Inc. with the wiring harness, along with Wiring Diagrams.

Well I am all the way to the Timing Phase... need some guidance on this one, will make a new post for that.

Car is alive and now running again, Yes I am estatic to say the least !!

Check out my posting here w/ videos: 1929 Start-Up after Tune-Up...

Spent a little time out in the garage last night fooling with the timing & timing light. Trying to figure out to get my timing light 3555 INNOVA® Advance Timing Light to work with my antique Chevrolet, seems to keep picking up interference from Plug no 2.

I managed to get it to work for the most part. Anyone know of any TRICKS or TIPS how to SHIELD the pick up from interference ?? On my first attempt I did not see any marking in the timing window :/ so I rotated the distributer one way and the engine began to choke and try to shut off, so I spun it the other way, and it sped up, i went around adjusted teh carb to settle it down, shined the light in the window, and I saw the UC mark just starting to appear in the bottom of the window. took a minute to look over what i had and realized that i could not spin the distributer any more in that direction and still had a ways to go to get the timing in range. I shut her down, and pulled the distributer, spun it one tooth, aligned the oil pump back up, and dropped her back in. doubled checked it over, fired it back up, adjusted idle, and lit up the light and were right about 0 deg timing, UC was right on the point. Made a few adjustments and got the timing to 12 deg and settle the engine down. sounded nice.

Next I got the timing all set to 18 deg and settled the idle down and adjusted the carb. at this point the engine seems to jsut tap along, making soft music :) seems I have the plug gap, point gap, timing all set per recommendations, and it seems to run and settle in just fine. WIll let it ride for now, and will go back and double check the valves soon and make any adjustments that are needed.

So glad that it is running and sounding SO much better then it was before. I will shoot another video and post here soon, and you can do a before and after soundcheck.

Now to clsoe it up, and move on to the Brakes !!

Appears you have the engine stuff done for now. I haven't used a timing light in years. If you set timing for max idle speed and rapid smooth acceleration, it will be right on the money.

Increasing the plug gap and advancing the timing to 18 degrees usually makes a major difference in the running of the vehicle. Sounds like you have things dead on so you might want to call it good on the timing issue.

Thanks guys

Seems to be doing good, Need to let it run for a little while, then go back and double check all the bolts n torques, as well as check the valves one more time, then I will be moving on to the brakes :)

Also a good time to clean up the garage and put things away (Clean up after myself)