VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 Looking at a 33 Sedan

Sorry that I'm repeating myself. Not sure if I'm in the right forum.

Went to look at a 1933 Chevy 4 door sedan yesterday.
Metal good. Glass good. Interior so-so.
Battery dead so couldn't start it.

Assuming it runs, I was curious about what these go for.
I'm a Model A guy so Chevy's are out of my realm.


Do you know what these numbers mean?
Job 33-559
Body T20248
Trim #25
Paint 132

I have a bunch of photos to post but can't figure out how to attach them.

The directions state:
1. Click "File Manager" to bring up the "Attachment" window.
2. Click "Browse" to bring up the file browser window; this will allow you to browse your computer for any files or images you wish to upload; please note that you're bound by whatever the "allowed file type" setting is for the board.
3. Click "open" on the file you wish to upload.
4. Enter a description of what the file is (if you want to).
5. Click "add file" to add another file, or "done" to close the window and complete your posting.

I'm on the new topic page and there is nothing that says "File Manager."

Thanks
Nicolo

Hi Nicolo,

It sounds like you're looking at the "Can I attach a file to my post?" topic in the FAQ section. Look up the list a bit further to the "How do I add an image to my message?" topic.
You will need to have the pics posted on an image hosting web site, such as Photo Bucket. There are a number of these sites available and will allow you to post your picture for free. You can then link your image on the picture hosting site to the message. The FAQ topic explains how to do this. Here is some more discussion on this topic:

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php...earch/true/Re_Posting_a_Photo#Post205479

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php...s/Search/true/picture_posting#Post188217

The Body number indicates that it was assembled at the Tarrytown plant in New York, the job number that it is a 1933 Eagle 4 door sedan, and paint code 132 is black, both upper and lower body.

Happy Motoring,

Dan

Nicolo,
The directions that you posted are how VCCA Members can post photos. This mechanism is located in the MEMBERS forums which you don't have access to.

Dan's comments above are correct for non-VCCA members.

Welcome.

Thanks

Does this link work? Sorry about the poor quality. The car is in a tight garage.

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/u...&_suid=13599838472630781264879595387


Do these pics give you any insight?

Thanks
Nicolo

Yep, the link works.
The paint scheme is correct for 132, black upper and lower body with either red or black wheels. I guess the big question is, does it start, run, and stop. I'm no appraiser, especially when it comes to body work, but it looks pretty solid. Good luck with this.

Happy Motoring,

Dan

So, assuming it runs.
The metal is good, the interior is so-so.
Can somebody give me a ballpark range on price? Just a ballpark.

This may help as a starting point. It's the NADA Guide for a 1933 Chevrolet Eagle 4 door sedan:

http://www.nadaguides.com/classic-cars/1933/chevrolet/ca-master-eagle/4-door-sedan/Values

Happy Motoring,

Dan

As I mentioned in your original post, have you been able to assess the condition of the wood?

Ford and MOPAR are all steel bodies and this is not such a big deal. A '33 Chevy 4 door has lots of wood and the one you are looking at may be perfect in all ways.
Look at you door alignment, open a little bit, see how they line up, any big sags?
Can you raise a sagging door vertically and have the body not move. These would be real quick tests to make and check all 4 doors. Good alignment, open and closed is a very good sign the wood is tight and won't need costly replacement.
Ask the owner for his opinion of the wood. Most owners are truthful about the condition of their cars and if he is a Chevy man he will know what you are reffering to and you will establish that you are a knowledgeable buyer.
Good luck with it, it looks very good to me.
A car like this that is running well, good braking, no overheating and a solid body could bring upwards to 10 K as a ball park? I am sure you will see a lot of variation on this amount plus or minus especially because we do not know much about the actual condition.
This is like buying a house, don't agonize over overpaying a little for something you will have and enjoy for the next 15 years.
Chris

Thanks for the advice.

I only saw the car once (last week) with a Model A buddy who, when he saw “Body by Fisher” said, “wood”. However, I didn’t (don’t) know how to thoroughly check that. At the time, I opened and closed all of the doors. They seemed solid. But I didn’t know to check the alignment. One thing I remember is that a few screws were missing from that piece of finish molding that encircles the inside of the window (driver's window). Do you know what I’m referring to? Could that be an indication that there is some rotten wood within the door.

Also, the owner passed away a year ago so I don’t have the luxury of questioning him.

Thanks for your input.

Nicolo, I am not an authority by any means, but....from what I can see of the fenders, they look very nice and straight. The interior has been redone it looks very nice and it is high dollar stuff. the dash looks nice and if the wood graining has been redone they did a very good job. The grille looks very nice. If the car runs good, it looks like all you would have to do is clean it up and maybe tires, belts, hoses etc. I like it. tom

Hey guys, bear with me.

How do you start one of these buggers?

I have a Model A with a starter button on the floor and a timing advance/retard lever on the steering wheel. Not so with this Chevy.

I traced a pull cable from the right side of the dash to the starter. Does that engage the starter? Pull it and then let off? Do these cars have manual timing adjustments?

I'd like to try and start it before I consider buying it. It's been sitting for about 2 years. The coolant is topped off and green. The oil level is good. Looks like the car was stored with the emergency brake engaged. I have to check if the shoes are frozen.

Can you recommend any action prior to turning it over?

Thanks
Nicolo

The '33 Chevrolet Master starts a bit different. It has a linkage from the accelerator pedal to the starter. When you push the accelerator pedal it engages the linkage to activate the starter switch. Once the engine produces vacuum the linkage retracts and only the linkage to the carburetor operates. You can manually activate the starter switch on the starter motor if necessary.

Ok.
And there is no manual timing advance/retard is that right?

Also, looks like mechanical brakes is that correct.

There should not be a "Spark" knob/cable on the dash as '33 master had a vacuum advance. Yes mechanical brakes.

35EBHAlfTon

"...Can you raise a sagging door vertically and have the body not move."

Not sure exactly what you mean.
Am I raising the door when it's open or closed?
And if I raise it vertically and the body doesn't move, that would seem to be a bad thing. That is, that there's lots of unseen stuff (rotten wood) that moving behind the metal. Is that right?

Is there a way to determine if the vertical post between the front/rear doors is rotting?

Thanks boys.

Kind of, doors can line up well when closed. When opened they may sag because the wood in the body hinge pillar could be in bad shape. If you get vertical movement in the door when open with no movement in the car than there may be a problem. From what you have said of the condition so far it may not be an issue. You can also look at the hinge assembly where it joins the body hinge pillar. Does it wobble and move? Or does it appear to be tightly attached?
From what you have written so far this car appears to be sound but than again we have not seen it other than the few pictures posted.
If things are lining up, doors open and closed, than you may be "over engineering" this.
Hope all goes well with this purchase and if you buy it welcome to the forum as you work on it.
Chris

Went back for another look today.
The doors appear fairly solid. Very little movement. They align well vertically when they're both open.

The battery is dead so I haven't been able to turn it over, start it or drive it. Going back next week with a charged battery. For some nutty reason (cause I'm a Model A owner) I assumed it was a positive ground system. Wrong.

A few things:
There appears to be a grounding cable (though it was red) running from the base of the emergency brake cable to the frame. Is that typical?

The emergency brake simply engages the service brakes? When the e-brake is pulled, the brake pedal goes floppy. So, there is no separate shoe/band for the e-brake, is that right?

With the e-brake disengaged, the service brake has a load of play. That can't be good.

Are these babies known to overheat?

I can see how that started pull-switch on the dash pushes the starter button. I depressed the accelerator pedal to see if it did the same thing to the starter button (as was mentioned earlier). However, nothing happened. That is, it had no affect on any of that starter linkage. I followed a piece of round stock that ran from the vaccum switch, against the fire wall, to the other side of the engine and then in the area of the pedal but I don't see a connection between the pedal linkage and that round stock. Can someone post a closeup pic or 2 of the generator area where the vacuum switch and start button reside and then the other side where the pedal meets up with the round stock?

Also, the accelerator pedal does not retract. That is, it sticks to the floor when fully depressed.

Thanks for all your help so far guys

Nicolo

Hi Nicolo,

To answer some of your questions, yes, all Chevs were negative ground.

I'm not sure about the grounding setup you described. It may be someone added the cable to provide a better electical connection between the frame and motor. As a side note to this, and I imagine you are also aware of this, the 6 volt systems require heavier (00 size) battery cables than the current 12 volt systems.

Here are some diagrams from the 1929-1941 parts manual showing the starter and brake layouts.

Starterator diagram:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/parts/1929_41/41cp035.html

There were no separate brake shoes for the emergency brakes, the service brakes acted as parking brakes with the hand brake operating on both front and rear.

Mechanical brake layout:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/parts/1929_41/41cp113.html

The engineering features are also available from the GM Heritage site. A lot of info in these manuals.

GM vehicle information packs:
http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html
Where is says " Chevrolets (All Models Not Listed Below) ", click on the Show button. Then go the year you need (1933). Click on that year and you can download a PDF of the manual.

Good luck with this, and keep us posted. I'm anxious to hear how all this turns out.

Happy Motoring,

Dan

Thanks Dan

That's great info.
I will read and digest this material and get back to you guys.

Nicolo

Looks like the linkage that ties the accelerator pedal to the started is non-functioning. I press the padal to the floor and nothing happens around the starter.

Do you have a good battery?

JD

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant that there was no mechanical activity thru all that linkage to the starter when the pedal was to the floorboard. I was at least expecting to see the starter button depressed at that point.

But to answer your question, the battery is weak.

Nicolo

So I pulled the battery, took it home and charged it for the owner. I hope to try to start it this weekend.

The gas has been sitting for at least 18 months but when I opened the cap and took a whiff it didn't smell bad. I was thinking of removing the sediment bowl and at a minimum, filling it with fresh gas. I would prefer to drain the tank and blow the lines but keep in mind that I don't own this car so I'm limited as to what I can and can't do.

For sure the linkage from the pedal to the starter is not operating. As I said prior, there seems to be a Rube Goldberg pull switch on the dash that's hooked up to some linkage on the starter. But I can't imagine that's original. I don't see that arrangement in the online manual.

Anyhow, by the time I get done checking this car out it'll probably be sold to someone else!

Thanks
Nicolo

Nicolo

Have you turned the engine over by hand yet to make sure nothing is seized?

You can also operate the starter switch by hand from under the hood by simply pressing down on it and then operater the throttle linkage by hand from the same side. Been there and done that way too many times

Jeff

Thanks Jeff

I hadn't thought about the hand crank. I wonder if my Model A crank would work there.

Would another option be to put in 2nd gear and try to rock it back and forth?


On a related note, I saw this '33 in closed down showroom today. Pardon the bad pics but I was trying to shoot thru glass. This is not unlike the car I'm looking at (this one is a 2-door). The car in this showroom is in much better shape.

Hope the link works:

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/u...amp;_suid=136106437014107169250432689176

Nic

I've posted another picture.

This is the started area. The left red circle shows the linkage-to-nowhere. The right red circle shows the cable that runs to the dashboard.

Does that look like the original started or do you think it was replaced when they did all that Rube Goldberg with the linkage?

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/u...3_11_zpsa831d395.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

"started"
Typo, of course I meant "starter."

I don't know if the starter is the correct original, however it appears the cable if pulled will engage the starter. If the cable is non functioning then manually depressing the switch will also active the starter. I would still hand crank the engine first to be sure it is free. Depending on how long it has been since the engine was running there are several things that should be done BEFORE starting. These have been discussed in previous post and if you are lucky you may be able to find and review them. I'm not trying to discourage you, however serious engine damage could be done to an otherwise perfectly good engine.

Not an original set up at all. Starter may be corrext but the rest is not. There shiuld not be a cable from the dash to the starter. Only linkage from the accelerator to the starter along with a vac diaphram and tube. The "starterstor" works great when hooked up properly.

I would pull all the plugs first and put some wd-40, quite a bit, in the hole on the pistons. That will lube the rings while you give it a spin via hand crank. If it won't turn you might have a mouse nest on the fly wheel gear (Mine did. It locked it up until I turned it backwards. Took out the cotton nest. Ha! Ha!)Check out the starter diagrams in the repair books first. There is a good picture of the Starterator in the'35-36 Repair manual page 146. It shows the cut a way in figure 299. This is the correct hook up.

Going back today to drop some Marvel in the cylinders. Will let that be until the weekend.

Nicolo,where in N.J. are you?I'm in Burlington...exit 5 on the N.J. Turnpike.

Car is somewhere up near Paramus u believe. I am down the shore off GSP exit 109

Mike33

I'm in Hillsdale, 168 on the GSP.

Jaw

I sent you a private message.

did not receive it

Jaw

Sent again.

The saga continues.

Went back to drop a little more MMO in the cylinders.

I found the crank in the garage but that baby wouldn't budge.
Put the car in 3rd gear and pushed in forward while a buddy was watching the pulley, fan etc. He didn't see any movement at all. Repeated the same procedure in 1st and 2nd gear with the same results. We moved the car at least 8-10 feet forward during this process. As expected we couldn't push it backward unless it was in neutral.

Is there any chance that the free-wheeling is engaged? I assumed that the free-wheel knob on the dash is a push-pull. I had it pushed in all the way. At the time I didn't think to play with it.

Gonna try again tomorrow.

Oooofa!!!

Pull the Free Wheeling cable all the way out.

Take off the flywheel cover and use a big screwdriver or pry bar to break the engine free. Just pry back and forth until the flywheel moves, squirt some oil, diesel, wd40 into the plug holes and continue to work the ring gear until you get it to turn all the way around.

Pulling the knob disengaged the free-wheeling. That’s counter intuitive to me. That baby was not easy to push-pull by the way.
Anyhow, I slipped it into 3rd and rocked it back and forth as much as I could but had no luck unfreezing it.
Then I put my 12 year old in the car, had him depress the clutch while I gathered a little steam going forward and had him release the clutch. No luck there.
Tried the hand crank again, failed.
I’m not gonna be able to remove the flywheel as it’s not my car.
How about this; Can I put the car in say 3rd gear and pull it a few feet with another vehicle?
In the meantime, I poured some more goodies in the plug holes and will let that work till next weekend.
Watch, I’ll do all this work and the lady will sell the car to someone else.

Thanks for all of your suggestions to date.

Nicolo

Too much pressure on the crankshaft will bend it. Yes it is forged steel but not designed to have the engine rotated by the flywheel. So it is best to try and free up the piston(S) assuming that is what is stuck. Have had two engines that were frozen by rust in the rod and main bearings not pistons or rings. That is definitely not the normal problem. Just mention it so you are aware that it is possible.

At this point you know engine work will be required, even if you do get it to turn free. The asking price should reflect that condition.

First, I know nothing!

IMHO, if the engine is stuck (evidently it is), getting it to turn now will be of no benefit to you. You still will not know what condition it is inside. If you still want the car and (as has been said) you can buy it at a cost reflecting its general condition AND the fact it has a stuck engine, fine. Otherwise, if it were me (and it ain't!) I would simply walk away. There'll be another car to buy.

Of course, there have been a few stuck engines that were carefully freed up and ran decently. (I wouldn't bet on it.) Many of 'em cost a lot of money to repair.

In any event, good luck.

Since the car is not yours, and, if you are not experienced in what you are doing, you may break or ruin something....then the next guy in line that is interested in the car has to deal with it. Also the damage to the car will then have be reflected in a lower asking price by the owner.

Neglect is a witch on wheels.

A modicum care could have kept this car viable (As witnessed by my 1930 Model A). Really a shame. The interior is so-so but the metal and wood is real good. I'm aware we're not talking about a Packard roadster here but nonetheless.

Model A engine rebuilds run into the few thousands range these days. I imagine it's similar with the Chevy 6. And then of course, you have the engine out so why not rebuild the entire drive train, etc., etc.

Just my opinion,but...It looks like a pretty straight and honest 80 year old car to me. If the wood is good I would research what it would cost to rebuild the engine and go from there. It may need a complete rebuild or it may not. If not, you might get by with a set of rings, valves, and gaskets. It depends on how much you can do yourself and what you plan to do with it, assuming you can buy it at a reasonable price.

Well, I have a '34 truck I bought in '72 and have never finished. I can do a lot of stuff, but the wood killed me. It rots and really makes a mess. This car will be much harder to work on than the truck! The wood is complicated and few of us have the skill to reproduce it, even if we had the time. If you are an A guy, I'm betting you fall into this category! Is there any way to get one of the experts to go look at it with you? He could poke and prod the wood in the spots likely to be bad and see what's up. Even if the wood is good, it's a time bomb you don't want to leave outside! Wood and body rust problems dwarf all mechanical problems! Any of us can pull an engine and get it fixed up, but the reverse is true of wood and hidden rust!

Oh yes, replacing the wood...these things are a jigsaw puzzle of little nails and odd pieces of metal. Even if you had new wood, getting it in place and fitted is a bear and THEN things likely won't line up! The bodies were built using jigs to hold the bits in place while they were tacked/screwed to the wood. And getting the wood? A very few people have been involved and at least one has quit. I know of one other who is months behind. It's usually a sideline and you have NO influence on when you'll get anything. There are artists who can pull this stuff off, but they are few and expensive. It has nothing in common with welding!

If it's cheap, like $2k, you can buy it, drive it for fun, and sell it off. If you get to doing real work, you can spend years and thousands on it before you know it and have no possibility of getting the money back!

If you unstick the engine and get it running, you have raised the price by many hundreds, maybe thousands, as a gift to the owner, unless you have a solid contract beforehand. In my opinion, you have NOTHING to gain by unsticking the engine.

Try to make a deal as is, put it on a trailer, and get outta Dodge, unless you like working for free. It's a better car than any A, when it's running right, but will never be good at stopping and the whole thing will keep getting looser as the fasteners in the wood start developing play! Obviously I'm not talkiing about cars that have been fixed and loved by their owners, so please don't flame me for being a little pessimistic!

Good luck, Wilson

I have my thoughts on this, too. I don't look at it that way. To me it is a HOBBY. That means it is something to work on over the years, to be enjoyed, to bring back to life. It is also a process of learning. If that means doing wood work or welding, sanding or working on the engine.. Or if it means finding parts (may take years) or a craftsman to do the work....or saving up money to get the work done.....that is all part of the HOBBY. When finished it will be something you can stand back and look at and proudly say..."I did that." (Others will say, "How did he do that?, I wish I could "do" something like that.) I wish you the very best of luck and if you are like me....never, never, give up. But most of all you have to be satisfied with your restoration. Be wise in your choice.

Absolutely right. I even fix up old ham radio stuff.
My point was that he should know just what he is getting into.
I was young and green, but not untalented. If I had known about the problems with wood framing I would NEVER have started!
It has caused me, and my kids, to miss the fun of driving around. I'm thinking of finding a usable '38 or so, just to have real brakes and no wood. I did enjoy an A for a while, but was too busy to do much and sold it before a move.

The reason I have a 1936 made in the last half of the year (half year model change) is the steel "Safety" doors (not wood frame) and steel door post, the rear is wood. I think that is the best of both worlds.... wood and steel. My '36 truck still has the wooden door post, but steel "safety" doors and steel "safety" cab frame. 1937's are all steel no wood. So, I have worked with both steel and wood. You have to choose a hobby area that you like. These Old Chevy's give us a rare chance at going into an era of time when wood and steel came together or all wood or all steel. We are so lucky to have a choice. So, if you like the '30's it is your choice.

I agree that for me at least the wood was more of a challenge than the engine and mechanicals on my 33 coupe because I am not a wood craftsman. But, I got it done. It needed new wood sills and cross members, new door hinge posts, dash support, all top wood, and much of the door wood. I made my own, some of it with not much for a pattern. But it was fun and a challenge. The engine I found for it was stuck and 2 cylinders had to be sleeved because of deep pitting. It was all fun and very satisfying to get it on the road. It has been on the road since the year I got it and that was 1979. It is all how bad you want to do it. On the other hand, I have a general class ham radio license and I don't even try to fix that stuff. Like I said, It is all in how bad you want to do it!

Thanks to all of you for offering opinions and ideas. Lucky for me to find this site. I reached out, you guys reached back.

There was some chat about how I have nothing to gain by getting this baby going or that I'm perhaps wasting my time or working for free.

Some background. I've been dealing with the wife of the owner. He was working in Tower 1 in the WTC when the first plane hit. He had the presence of mind to leave his building and the good luck not to return to it. He survived that day only to lose a battle with leukemia five or six years later. So this is a woman, his wife, in her mid 60's that has decided to sell the car.

I'm not a dealer, just an interested car guy. If I eventually get it unglued or even get it running and someone else buys it the next day, I ain't gonna feel bad about it. I figure I did a good deed for a complete stranger. And in the process I learned a little bit about a 1933 Chevy and found a great forum here.

But I haven't given up just yet! I was talking with a local engine rebuilder and he suggested his magic elixir. He mixes 1/2 ATF with 1/2 lacquer thinner followed by 2 days of rest.

When I go back I'm gonna snake a small wire into the cylinders to determine if something is nesting in there. If so, then I think the head would have to come off and that'll be it for me.

Thanks again boys.

Sent you a PM

Nic, we didn't know the circumstances you just described. You are right and at least some of us were wrong. We thought is was a typical "trying to unload an ol' car" situation. You are a good person attempting to help a lady who needs help.

Try a mix of 50/50 ATF and Acetone in the cylinders. Let 'er soak a day and dose it again to sit another day or so. In actual tests, this mix far exceeded the results of many popular penetrating oils. Then, if it were me (and it isn't) with the spark plugs out, I'd put the tranny in high (3rd) and gently try to rock the car back and forth by hand. If you keep repeating this process, you'll get it to turn.

Good luck!

Back at ya'.

Well I applied an elixir of 1/2 ATF and 1/2 lacquer thinner to each cylinder. Gonna wait a few days and give it another go.

On 4 of the cylinders I could hear the liquid dripping down to the pan (I think). On 2 I didn't hear that.

I should have poked around with a small ground wire and seen if there was any nesting material in any of the cylinders. That'll be next.

Been back a few times.

Poked around the cylinders thru the plug holes and found no evidence of mouse "nesting" material.
Removed the valve cover and ran some elixir down the rods.
Poured some more ATF/Lacq_thinner and waited a week.

Put an extension in the hand crank for leverage. No luck.
More rocking to and fro. No luck.
The thing that's bugging me is that the owner swears that the car was backed in the garage about 2 years ago and left alone. I realize that these results point to a seized engine but the chain of events don't seem to fit.

It's getting to be a personal challenge now.

Since the plugs are out and the valve cover is off, have you also removed the side pan to see the valve lifters and push rods? Are you sure the clutch is disengaged when trying to hand crank? With the valve cover off have you tried tapping on each rocker arm to see if the valves are not seized? (That was my cars problem and with stuck valves nothing moved). (I used every kind of spray on rust buster on each valve stem and with a wood block and hammer, tapped tapped tapped and sprayed until they got loose. Once that worked the engine turned over freely)

Jeff

My freeing (car in neutral)of my engine was a mouse nest on the fly wheel. It was made from the cotton off of the seats inside. Mice can be ingenious little devils. Remove the dust cover from under the car near clutch (it is only two bolts). Look with drop light in that area to see. It can be something as simple as that. Good luck...

Sounds like you have not tried the method I mentioned earlier, "rocking" the car in gear will not do it and could damage the drivetrain. Just get underneath and pry the flywheel back and forth using a small pry-bar or big screwdriver on the ring gear. All you have to do is get it to budge just a little, then work it back and forth until you can get it to turn all around. If this doesn't work you'll have to disassemble the engine; don't keep pulling it around in gear.

Well, I was back at it yesterday.

I removed the starter and gently tried to move the flywheel with a pry bar (trans in neutral). No luck there.

Then I jacked her up and removed the flywheel cover. No indication of rodent nests. I was able to get some decent purchase with the pry bar again but the damn thing wouldn't budge. I mean like nothing.

Smells like I'm at the end of the line.

If you can't get the engine to move with pry bar on flywheel teeth, pull the pan and head and have a visual look to see what is keeping the crankshaft from moving. If the main bearings are the problem the crankshaft will not easily forward and back with a gentle tap. If the crank taps forward and back then try tapping on the rod caps. They all should move back and forth. If all that seems loose then it is most likely pistons, rings, cylinder walls. Check the cylinder walls that you can see for any sign of rusting, deposit buildup. Light tapping with hammer handle can quickly identify the problem cylinder(s). If it sounds solid then add some ATF (mixed with small amount of Acetone is even better) and let it soak a while. Light tapping and more soaking will help get the lube to and between the parts. If you can't get it to break free in a few days then might as well take the engine out and work on it. Good luck.

All very good advice. However, before pulling the head/pan, you might follow Jaw33's suggestion to make sure the valves are not stuck. If that isn't it, I'm betting on stuck pistons. But then, what do I know?

Chipper is right (as usual). Acetone works far better than thinner.

Keep after it. You'll beat it yet!

If it turns out to be major, I'll make you a good deal on my rebuilt 216.

Good luck - -