VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 Looking at a 33 Sedan

I've posted another picture.

This is the started area. The left red circle shows the linkage-to-nowhere. The right red circle shows the cable that runs to the dashboard.

Does that look like the original started or do you think it was replaced when they did all that Rube Goldberg with the linkage?

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/u...3_11_zpsa831d395.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

"started"
Typo, of course I meant "starter."

I don't know if the starter is the correct original, however it appears the cable if pulled will engage the starter. If the cable is non functioning then manually depressing the switch will also active the starter. I would still hand crank the engine first to be sure it is free. Depending on how long it has been since the engine was running there are several things that should be done BEFORE starting. These have been discussed in previous post and if you are lucky you may be able to find and review them. I'm not trying to discourage you, however serious engine damage could be done to an otherwise perfectly good engine.

Not an original set up at all. Starter may be corrext but the rest is not. There shiuld not be a cable from the dash to the starter. Only linkage from the accelerator to the starter along with a vac diaphram and tube. The "starterstor" works great when hooked up properly.

I would pull all the plugs first and put some wd-40, quite a bit, in the hole on the pistons. That will lube the rings while you give it a spin via hand crank. If it won't turn you might have a mouse nest on the fly wheel gear (Mine did. It locked it up until I turned it backwards. Took out the cotton nest. Ha! Ha!)Check out the starter diagrams in the repair books first. There is a good picture of the Starterator in the'35-36 Repair manual page 146. It shows the cut a way in figure 299. This is the correct hook up.

Going back today to drop some Marvel in the cylinders. Will let that be until the weekend.

Nicolo,where in N.J. are you?I'm in Burlington...exit 5 on the N.J. Turnpike.

Car is somewhere up near Paramus u believe. I am down the shore off GSP exit 109

Mike33

I'm in Hillsdale, 168 on the GSP.

Jaw

I sent you a private message.

did not receive it

Jaw

Sent again.

The saga continues.

Went back to drop a little more MMO in the cylinders.

I found the crank in the garage but that baby wouldn't budge.
Put the car in 3rd gear and pushed in forward while a buddy was watching the pulley, fan etc. He didn't see any movement at all. Repeated the same procedure in 1st and 2nd gear with the same results. We moved the car at least 8-10 feet forward during this process. As expected we couldn't push it backward unless it was in neutral.

Is there any chance that the free-wheeling is engaged? I assumed that the free-wheel knob on the dash is a push-pull. I had it pushed in all the way. At the time I didn't think to play with it.

Gonna try again tomorrow.

Oooofa!!!

Pull the Free Wheeling cable all the way out.

Take off the flywheel cover and use a big screwdriver or pry bar to break the engine free. Just pry back and forth until the flywheel moves, squirt some oil, diesel, wd40 into the plug holes and continue to work the ring gear until you get it to turn all the way around.

Pulling the knob disengaged the free-wheeling. That’s counter intuitive to me. That baby was not easy to push-pull by the way.
Anyhow, I slipped it into 3rd and rocked it back and forth as much as I could but had no luck unfreezing it.
Then I put my 12 year old in the car, had him depress the clutch while I gathered a little steam going forward and had him release the clutch. No luck there.
Tried the hand crank again, failed.
I’m not gonna be able to remove the flywheel as it’s not my car.
How about this; Can I put the car in say 3rd gear and pull it a few feet with another vehicle?
In the meantime, I poured some more goodies in the plug holes and will let that work till next weekend.
Watch, I’ll do all this work and the lady will sell the car to someone else.

Thanks for all of your suggestions to date.

Nicolo

Too much pressure on the crankshaft will bend it. Yes it is forged steel but not designed to have the engine rotated by the flywheel. So it is best to try and free up the piston(S) assuming that is what is stuck. Have had two engines that were frozen by rust in the rod and main bearings not pistons or rings. That is definitely not the normal problem. Just mention it so you are aware that it is possible.

At this point you know engine work will be required, even if you do get it to turn free. The asking price should reflect that condition.

First, I know nothing!

IMHO, if the engine is stuck (evidently it is), getting it to turn now will be of no benefit to you. You still will not know what condition it is inside. If you still want the car and (as has been said) you can buy it at a cost reflecting its general condition AND the fact it has a stuck engine, fine. Otherwise, if it were me (and it ain't!) I would simply walk away. There'll be another car to buy.

Of course, there have been a few stuck engines that were carefully freed up and ran decently. (I wouldn't bet on it.) Many of 'em cost a lot of money to repair.

In any event, good luck.

Since the car is not yours, and, if you are not experienced in what you are doing, you may break or ruin something....then the next guy in line that is interested in the car has to deal with it. Also the damage to the car will then have be reflected in a lower asking price by the owner.

Neglect is a witch on wheels.

A modicum care could have kept this car viable (As witnessed by my 1930 Model A). Really a shame. The interior is so-so but the metal and wood is real good. I'm aware we're not talking about a Packard roadster here but nonetheless.

Model A engine rebuilds run into the few thousands range these days. I imagine it's similar with the Chevy 6. And then of course, you have the engine out so why not rebuild the entire drive train, etc., etc.

Just my opinion,but...It looks like a pretty straight and honest 80 year old car to me. If the wood is good I would research what it would cost to rebuild the engine and go from there. It may need a complete rebuild or it may not. If not, you might get by with a set of rings, valves, and gaskets. It depends on how much you can do yourself and what you plan to do with it, assuming you can buy it at a reasonable price.

Well, I have a '34 truck I bought in '72 and have never finished. I can do a lot of stuff, but the wood killed me. It rots and really makes a mess. This car will be much harder to work on than the truck! The wood is complicated and few of us have the skill to reproduce it, even if we had the time. If you are an A guy, I'm betting you fall into this category! Is there any way to get one of the experts to go look at it with you? He could poke and prod the wood in the spots likely to be bad and see what's up. Even if the wood is good, it's a time bomb you don't want to leave outside! Wood and body rust problems dwarf all mechanical problems! Any of us can pull an engine and get it fixed up, but the reverse is true of wood and hidden rust!

Oh yes, replacing the wood...these things are a jigsaw puzzle of little nails and odd pieces of metal. Even if you had new wood, getting it in place and fitted is a bear and THEN things likely won't line up! The bodies were built using jigs to hold the bits in place while they were tacked/screwed to the wood. And getting the wood? A very few people have been involved and at least one has quit. I know of one other who is months behind. It's usually a sideline and you have NO influence on when you'll get anything. There are artists who can pull this stuff off, but they are few and expensive. It has nothing in common with welding!

If it's cheap, like $2k, you can buy it, drive it for fun, and sell it off. If you get to doing real work, you can spend years and thousands on it before you know it and have no possibility of getting the money back!

If you unstick the engine and get it running, you have raised the price by many hundreds, maybe thousands, as a gift to the owner, unless you have a solid contract beforehand. In my opinion, you have NOTHING to gain by unsticking the engine.

Try to make a deal as is, put it on a trailer, and get outta Dodge, unless you like working for free. It's a better car than any A, when it's running right, but will never be good at stopping and the whole thing will keep getting looser as the fasteners in the wood start developing play! Obviously I'm not talkiing about cars that have been fixed and loved by their owners, so please don't flame me for being a little pessimistic!

Good luck, Wilson

I have my thoughts on this, too. I don't look at it that way. To me it is a HOBBY. That means it is something to work on over the years, to be enjoyed, to bring back to life. It is also a process of learning. If that means doing wood work or welding, sanding or working on the engine.. Or if it means finding parts (may take years) or a craftsman to do the work....or saving up money to get the work done.....that is all part of the HOBBY. When finished it will be something you can stand back and look at and proudly say..."I did that." (Others will say, "How did he do that?, I wish I could "do" something like that.) I wish you the very best of luck and if you are like me....never, never, give up. But most of all you have to be satisfied with your restoration. Be wise in your choice.

Absolutely right. I even fix up old ham radio stuff.
My point was that he should know just what he is getting into.
I was young and green, but not untalented. If I had known about the problems with wood framing I would NEVER have started!
It has caused me, and my kids, to miss the fun of driving around. I'm thinking of finding a usable '38 or so, just to have real brakes and no wood. I did enjoy an A for a while, but was too busy to do much and sold it before a move.