VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Radial Tires

For a 1937 Town Sedan Master Deluxe (with knee action). Can I put radial tires and tubes on my 37 wheels with sucess, or should I stick with bias ply tires?

Yes you can put radial tires of the proper size on your 1937 rims.If rims are rusted in the bead area they may be too weak for radials.Tubes should not be necessary.There is a member of this site that has done it and he is very happy with them.
If it were mine I would use bias ply tires.Just my opinion.

I don't have my '38 running yet and so I might feel differently when I do, but I plan to keep the bias ply tires. I'm not old enough to recall the days before radials, though I know my dad's vehicles had bias ply tires in my childhood. It's a matter of authenticity. I want to know how a genuine '38 Chevy rode and drove. That's part of the fun. And the VCCA is committed to preservation of the Chevy as it came from the factory. I'm always perplexed by those guys who go out and buy a '49 Whatzit just they had when they were a kid/teen/grandpa had/etc. and then commence to install radial tires, a 12-volt system, ac, power steering, paint it 87 coats of a non-factory color, etc., etc. What's the point? You don't have an original then. Sometimes I'm perplexed to see this kind of activity go unremarked on in G&D. It seems several months back, there was a white early 30's Chevy. Was white available then? Not to my knowledge, but I don't know. When you get down to it, I've often wondered if the cars of the teens and early '20's might be more authentic if you had them painted at EconoPaint than by a specialist. Or the fellow who stuffed his Chevy with insulation so it would ride more quietly. Why? These cars will ride more quietly anyway because road surfaces are so improved. Those are just my thoughts, for what they probably aren't worth.

Taylor, I share many of your sentiments. I enjoy keeping cars as original as possible because every time someone chops up a car with modern gizmos that's one more piece of history lost and gone forever. One comment on the non-original cars that appear from time to time in G&D; the editors do make the point that "not all cars featured in the G&D are 100%. Check with your technical advisor listed in the G&D."
Coach

I thank the three of you for your thoughts and knowledge. I will be going with bias ply.
old as me 37

I really enjoyed TaylorD's comments.He hit the nail right on the head.The reason and drive and enjoy my old cars is to experiance how they performed when new and what we thought was the last word years ago.

Best comment I have heard about using radials on a vintage car (even the radial wide whites): It's like wearing a tuxedo with sneakers - yeah, you will probably be more comfortable, you will probably perform, run and corner better, but you will still look like an idiot! An old car is a vehicle you take out on the road much like the nice clothes you wear on a special occasion - it's as much about how you look and present than the practicality of it! And the radials have some big disadvantages I never hear people talk about - the heighth of the tire is almost always shorter than original, changing effective gear ratios (for top end cruising) and speedometer readings, and the gap between the wheelwell opening and the top of the tire grows, which in my opinion is a very bad thing visually. I've taken radials off a classic car without power steering and added back bias plys, and the effort needed in low speed turning is cut in half! But a good point was raised (no pun intended) here on originality - if my car is 100 point accuate but I have lowered it 2-4 inches to give it a more pleasing stance, am I more out of bounds by club standards than if I have radial whites, clumsy aftermarket fog lights, and personalized license plates and frames? I see restored cars with new springs that are literally 2 - 4 inches HIGHER than stock - what is more incorrect? I worry there are racial or other stigmas associated with lowered old Chevys, and this could have huge implications on the future growth of the club. I see clubs in CA with cars WAY more accurate than those I see in G & D, but because they have sinned with lowering their cars, I have a feeling they would never be welcome in the club magazine or other places. I would love to open this can of worms here and see what you all think, I think it is a great topic!

Why radials on a knee action car? Many years ago I had a '38 Master Deluxe coupe and it had such a strong caster action that I don't remember it wandering at all. It had new units, joints and steering without much slack. There were no radials around then. Great car. I had to sell it when I was called to active duty....

I guess I'm the 'idiot' as I will never again drive any of my old cars for any distance on bias ply tires. I LOVE my DiamondBack www radials.

-Idiot

I was just quoting someone else, so don't take offense, I don't think you're an idiot at all - heck, you will probably get a better points score than my car that has bias plys and is lowered ;), and you'd really hate how my car rides....

The great thing is that we can all use any parts on the car that we choose - and have different opinions and express them here. :)

I agree Gene, and I do apologize if I offended anyone with my comments, they are all meant in good fun and I am just one of those people that likes to stir the pot a bit. Are we having fun yet, I am!

Hey Fellow Idiot.... aka Bowtie Bob,

I couldn't agree with you more.....


I do think distance is the key word in your comment. For instance, I am willing to admit I never found it much of a hassle to drive my '42 5-8-10 miles to a local cruise-in or whatever with the bias ply 600-16's. Definitely NOT as good as the Coker wide white radials on my 54 hardtop. But not too much of a hassle because of the short distance and not on the Freeway.

The freeway and bias ply tires just don't go together for me.....

But, as Gene says, to each his own. And as others say, there's something to be said for originality. But for me, and you, there's something to be said for comfort or pleasure or whatever you'd call it from radials on the old cars.

Bill.

Yep, an interesting conversation, and a good healthy issue to talk about.

Personally, I run bias ply tires on my ”˜33 Coach and ”˜53 trucks. They definitely make them steer easier at low speeds. But I also can fully appreciate why people might want radials on their cars if they drive them long distances - at least, say, mid-50's and newer.

And then there are the horror stories of radials “rolling off” of the bead lip on older wheels that weren’t designed to handle the very different dynamics of radials in cornering.

To me, driving a 50 or 75 year old car around routinely gives a whole new perspective on going around curves, or up hills - then when I’m in a late model vehicle (I try to avoid that!) the hills seem to flatten out, and the curves hardly matter. Something is lost in the process, though.

As Gene says, “the great thing is that we can all use any parts on the car that we choose.” Just consider how different we are from the more “normal” people, by virtue of the fact that we want to drive these cars AT ALL. I get some pretty strange looks (and have some great conversations) from all types of people as I run around town in my Daily Driver 54 year old pickup. A lot of them can’t believe it’s really my every day truck, when I stop at Home Depot and it’s 10 degrees out and snowing. ..

Don W
Prez

Please, please, I am sorry for the idiot comment, I really didn't intend to offend anyone - but I did get you to respond!

I find that if I drive in the fast lane or right lane of a freeway, my bias plys will have more of the "lane wander" than running one of the middle lanes, so I do avoid those lanes. Also, if your steering and front-end isn't tight, I will admit that you will have a nervous ride at freeway speeds on BPs. And bias plys tend to flat spot from sitting. Other than that, I have found virtually no ride difference or advantage between radials and bias plys, and unless you have discs or other brake mods, I think the stopping improvements are not that dramatic. Radial whites are ususally twice as expensive as BPs as well.

Here is a tip: have your bias plys "tire lathed", or shaved, to be perfectly round, and then have them "strobe balanced" on the car (which takes into account any imbalance in your rotating assembly). And for heavens sake, keep the weights on the inside! This will dramatically improve ride, reduce lane wander and virtually nullify the differences between bias plys and radials. There is an old tire shop in Long Beach, CA that performs this service (it was showcased in Classic Trucks magazine a month or 2 ago), and the gentleman is named Nate Jones - I can search out his number if anyone needs it, or look for a tire shop that does this in your area.

It's really an aesthetic issue for me, and here is something to keep in mind - stylists in the 30s / 40s had about 2 or 3 tire sizes to work with (primarily 6.00/16s), and literally designed the entire car around the wheel/tire combos available, so your Chevy was designed to look its "best" around the heighth, width and overall look of the original bias ply tire (and if I can continue to stir the lowering pot here, designers tended to design cars at about 2 - 3 inches below the heighth that was released to the public...). Any yes, lowering does lower the center of gravity of the car, reducing some "pitchyness" and improving the handling of a car equipped with bias plys. Radials really do tend to be shorter, and ususally have a sidewall design (at the black corners of the tire) that is better suited to an SUV or 4 wheel drive truck! I do like the Diamond Back Classics if for no other reason they are free from sidewall lettering and have a cleaner "look".

Maybe all this controversy could encourage Coker or another tire manufacturer to produce a radial that is exactly the heighth of the original tire (probably more like an 80 to 85 series aspect ratio), and has a sidewall design that is really close to a vintage tire.

It probably depends on the year of the car and the condition of the suspension.
I have both bias and radial tires for my '50 and '57.There is a slight improvement with the radials.I chose to make a 3000 mile trip to Colorado last year with the '50 running on bias - and I wasn't sorry.The suspension was much improved in 1949.
Now my '39 is another story.(coil springs).The suspension is a tad loose plus the 6.00X16 tires make for constant slight corrections.Can be tiring on a long trip.Never had the opertunity to try radials but I am sure they would make a big improvement on that car.I have all the pieces needed to rebuild the front end but not the ambition.
On the Colorado trip I did encounter more long stretches of groved pavement then I expected.For the most part you could feel the car kind of squish arond a little but no real steering corections were required.
I agree with PDXjoe comment on the enclosed spring knee-action cars.The steering on my '34 just seems to pull you straight down the road.Its a very comfortable steering car except due to the strong caster action it requires more effort on turns at highway speed.

37Richard-I am sure Bob wasn't really offended.We all have typed out something,hit submit,read it later and wished we would not have sent it.

37 Richard,

NO problem here on the "idiot" deal. I doubt Bowtie Bob was offended either.

I'm pretty sure we were just playing off your use of the word. At least I know that's what I was doing.

Sure as heck NO offense here.

Bill.

Glad to hear that guys, it really is fun to hear all your comments and I will keep my finger safely on the submit button!

Anybody out there that has radials AND lowered an otherwise stock car, would that be a venial or cardinal sin

Well, I WAS offended and because of that remark, I've decided to totally hot rod my coupe with a Ford engine, lower it within 1" of the ground and install velour interior and skinny 21" tires...........and paint it day-glo orange! - just kidding

Hey, if I were to be offended every time somebody called me an 'idiot', I'd be in a straight jacket by now!!

Richard,

I suppose that (venial sin or mortal sin) would depend on your upbringing....

At the moment, I don't have a car that I'd lower. They're sort of too (for lack of a better word) "nice." Too original. But if I had the 'right' one; I'd lower it in a heartbeat!!!

IF I CAN SAY THIS WITHOUT OFFENDING, I think "you guys" have some of the neatest, make that most fabulous, cars I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. Low-rider show annualy here in Portland and HAN and Pomona and so on.

Anyway, keep up with your chatter. I find your writing very interesting to read.....

(The other "idiot" - HA-HA)) - - Bill.

I didn't know Coker made a 21" wide white radial....

One of my buddies has a 42K mile original 42 Fleetline, with original black paint, loaded with EVERY available NOS GM accessory from 42 - he even has an original gas ration sticker in the window! (you should see his GM red head flash light turned on with ORIGINAL GM batteries...) He not only left it stock height (which I LOVE on this car), but he is running bias-ply BLACKWALLS, which really adds to the WWII look, so he is really going in a different direction! See, I can have an open mind! It still sounds like a UPS truck without pipes though....

Pic's of the 42 please!