VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc New oil - old motors

This is being discussed on a couple of other forums I belong to. Seems that current motor oils are lacking a zinc compound (ZDDP) that older, flat tappet engines need. EPA is behind the drive to eliminate the zinc phosphorus additive. Synthetic oils such as Amsoil are OK. What is the "conventional wisdom" from collectors on this site? I just bought some 2 year old oil to use in my vehicles. Is there an additive on the market? EPA is not kind to us as far as gasoline goes - now our oil is under attack. Just VERY curious. Bob W.

I've read the same sort of concern about the phasing out of ZDDP on other antique car and motorcycle sites, but I don't know how severe the problem is. The solution to the alledged problem appears to be to use diesel rated oils with a CI-4 or CI-4 Plus designation such as Shell's Rotella oil. These have the zinc compound that has been eliminated from most gas engine oils.

Coach

The articles that I have read say it a lot of talk about nothing.Tests made by GM say the present SM oil has proper lubrication for flat tappet engines.The oils still have the zinc additive but a smaller amount plus other additives for scuff prevention.The zink was first added to oils back in the '70's when various engines were loosing lobes off the camshaft.Actually the cams were poorly hardened.
Any oil today is 500 percent better than the best oils in 1950.
If you can find some old stocl oil that is still rated SL it will have the full amount of zinc.There has also been talk of using the Diesel 15W-40 oils but the latest containers that I have seen on the shelves is now rated SM also.
If you are concerned you can add General Motors Engine Oil Supplement to your oil.Its made for new camshaft break-in and contains lots of zinc.The only engines that I would consider using it in is those have extra performance racing camshafts as they use much stronger than stock valve springs.
Then you still have the guys that want to use non-detergent oils with no additives-go figure.
The reason for the less zinc is that it can harm the more delicate catalytic converters on newer cars.
Its just another "unleaded gas will damage your valves" scare.
If you like I could send you copies of the articles that I have.
I see you have your address posted - I will send you copies as soon as I find them...too much paper work around

I hope that of the national car clubs which are tasked with the responsibility of helping to preserve collector cars take a stance on the new oils and assist us in sorting fact from friction - I meant fiction.

See the link below for additional information on the matter.

http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=446899&an=0&page=0#Post446899

Too many people have too little to do except to talk all kinds of disaster storys, when what they need to do is get the old cars out of the garage, drive them and drip some more Zn. free oil on the highway and the garage floor. What is going to rust up and corrode up your engines, tappets and camshafts is it sitting too long between road trips with a nice drip tray under the pan without anyone driving it .(IMHO)

New or old beyond break-in I've used Mobil 1 in all my cars, trucks tractors, small engines, and race cars for hundreds of thousands of miles and have clean great running engines to show for it. Why use anything but the best lubricants available? Using old style oil in old cars is like serving old guys only Falstaff beer instead of Sam Adams Boston Ale. You only go around once in life, but your crank shaft goes around billions of times and the better the lubrication the lesser the wear and tear and sludge.

Hey! I happen to like Falstaff, better than Sam Adams, different brews for different folks!

As for oils I think we should use a more modern oil, however I don't see the advantage of Mobil one when the oil in the old cars need to be changed at around 1000 to 1500 miles because by their nature they get dirty and black more quickly than new cars, and don't have as efficient a filtering system as the new cars.

Mobil 1 is not recommender for the vintage cars. If for no other reason, it will find all your poor seals in every piece on the car, and then lie on the floor under the car for you to clean up.

Mobil 1 will tend to creep thru the cork gaskets more than conventional oil.I agree tha t Mobil ! is good but not for older cars.....There are other brands of synthetics that would be better but the modern conventional oil is sufficent for the oldies.I prefer to use the lower priced conventional oil because I buy it when its on sale for less the $1 a quart.Rather just change it more often.I do use synthetic in my modern cars due to the type of driving they recieve.Like only one or two miles at a time.

Some car manufacturers sell cars with Mobil 1 installed. The Chevrolet Corvette for example. When I purchased my new truck it was my intention to over maintain it during the period that I was the owner. I mentioned that to the dealer and he said Chevrolet's position was to use regular specified oil first and then switch to the Mobile 1 later. The reasoning was that the motor needed to "break in". Mobile 1 would NOT be a good oil for that purpose.

Several US high performance engines come with a factory fill of Mobil 1.I heard Chevrolet uses it in the Corvette because of the high oil temperatures that the oil attains when pushed hard.It also comes in the Viper.Many German performance cars use it also.BMW comes with Mobil !,they recommend it for each change, and recommend changing it at something like 15,000 or 20.000 miles.The first few changes are free so they can be assured that the owner uses it during the warranty period.In der home land these cars are often driven as 140 MPH so the best is needed.
I don't use Mobil ! myself.Have been buying Pennzoil Platinum when on sale for about $2.50 a Qt.May not be as good as Mobil 1 but I change it at about 2500 miles due to the driving conditions my engines are subject to.I am sure convention oil would do as good but it makes me feel better when I start her up at 10 below zero.
In my visits to dealerships I see new cars that have never had their oil changed that generaly go 25,000 miles and the oil looks like tar...when it locks up.It happens more of then than you think.

I have not seen any evidence of more leakage around seals due to using synthetics and hear this often from people who do not use synthetics. Even with the added expense of the oil and need for more frequent oil changes due to poor filtering I still find the cost well worth the results especially considering the cost of a properly built and balanced engine. I guess having an engine stay clean and well running for a very long time with out oil consumption makes it a poor choice for vintage engines? I didn't mean to imply Falstaff was a poor beer choice, I was just thinking of a brand the old guys would drink when I was a little kid. Additives or synthetic beer on the other hand is not recommended for old or new dudes.

When I get my new 235 motor installed in my 53 truck, what is a good oil to break it in with? I use pennzoil 10-30 now and was wonder if that is a good oil to break the new motor in? Thanks...Oscar

Oscar I have always been told not to put synthetic oil in a new motor. I put in good quality 10-30w oil and then I drain and replace that oil with some fresh oil after running the motor only for a short time in case there are any shavings or whatever that might still be in the motor. After break-in I use synthetic in my V8 and non-synthetic in my sixes. I think both of us live in similar climates.

I might be paranoid but this is what I have done in the past. Motors cost too much compared to what the oil cost. I still use the drained oil to oil my chain saw chain so it doesn't get wasted. LOL.

PS. You might want to start a new string with your question so you don't miss the real experts and their advice. You might find some old stings on this with a search also.