VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Carter W1

All my literature says there is a casting number on the face of the flange. I have 3 W1s on my workbench and cant find a number on any of them. I dont need to identify these units but would like to try. Am I blind or what? No part number tags either.

I have run into many W-1 carburetors that didn't have a casting number stamped on the face of the flange....especially those made by Chevrolet and not Carter.

:( :(

Some W-1's had a casting number on the fuel bowl. You can also seach this site for other recent threads about identifying W-1's. There were differences in the number of screws holding the air horn on, throttle linkages, size of metering rods and jets, etc. When rebuilding it is essential to get the right parts in the right carb; some parts may interchange but that doesn't make them right!
Coach

Thanks for assurance that its not me. Yes I do see the differences. For instance two of the ones on my bench have the vacuum port routed through the throttle shaft, one has the bowl vent routed through the choke shaft. Location of the vacuum line input varies. Also the split choke itself and springs on the choke vary. It's a wonder that there could be such variation and still work reasonably well.

Despite the common misconception that the "C" cast into the bodies of W-1 and earlier Carter carburetors indicates that it was built by Chevrolet it is still not correct. The "C" just indicates that the casting was made in the Bay City Michigan plant and not in the St. Louis Carter plant. Both plants were owned and operated by Carter. The Bay City plant was closer to iron ore, coke and limestone and also the Flint engine plant helping to reduce overall cost. By the way there are differences in some of the castings that are covered in Carter literature.

Some of us have spent many years reseaching and rebuilding these carburetors. Despite that the only way to insure that a carburetor meets the specifications of a given model and year is to take it apart and check each of the critical metering devices. The location of the ports, whether covered with screws or rivets, the type of choke plate, throttle arm, fuel bowl cover, air horn, etc. can be used to get close to the original application. But in the years since it was initially manufactured and today too many people typically have messed with them. A few of those people knew what they were doing. Way too many did not and came up with an interesting combinations of parts.

I recently received a carb that was rebuilt by a local mechanic that was reportedly knowledgeable on antique vehicles. The cost to put it back into proper working order was increased by approximately $150 by the talent of the mechanic.

Looserocker and Pushrod, Please remind me to not send Chipper one of my "finely tuned" Carter Carbs, he probably would charge me a fortune to mess it back up!

The following is from Jon, owner of The Carburetor Shop and a well known technical advisor on all brands of carburetors and their history:

"Interesting that the carburetors produced with the "C" in the casting had tags with the Chevrolet part number, not the Carter number, and that all of the parts which carried part numbers, casting numbers, etc. were the Chevrolet number. I find it highly unlikely that Carter themselves would have stamped Chevrolet numbers on ALL the parts on carburetors built in one Carter plant, and Carter numbers on those carburetors produced in another Carter plant. The Chevrolet part numbers give many restorers headaches today, as few have access to sufficient books to cross-reference them. Carter published a cross-reference for the Chevrolet numbers (which we have), as well as a cross-reference for all other companies for which they built carburetors; however, in 40 plus years of working on Carter carbs (plus having custody of a good portion of the Carter blueprints and other in-house only factory literature) I have NEVER seen a Plymouth, or Dodge, or any other Carter carburetor with other than Carter part numbers stamped on the parts. Some of the tags do carry BOTH numbers, and a few of the tags on carburetors produced for Autolite carry only the Autolite number on the tag, but all of the other numbers are Carter. Chevrolet is the only exception that I have ever seen. Regards. Jon."

:) :grin:

Jon may be "a well known technical advisor on all brands of carburetors and their history" but obviously he has not read all his Carter literature. An example is Bulletin No. 32 Chevrolet, Subject: 11-138 LOW SPEED JET, Date: April 20, 1937 which begins:
"It has developed that this part, though if fits correctly in carburetors of St. Louis production, has a slight tendency in some cases to bind when inserted in castings of Bay City production, the latter being identified by a large C in the outside of the iron casting." There are other pieces of Carter literature that refer to the carburetor castings with the "C" as Bay City castings. Then others like Bulletin No. 25 Chevrolet Subject: PORT PLUG #11B-27. Date: September 6, 1933. That states: " W1 Carter Carburetors, used on 1933 Chevrolet cars, have two types of idle ports. Castings marked with large letter "C" have rectangular shaped idle port and are equipped with idle port plug #11B-27 drilled with #34 hole. Castings not marked with the large letter "C" have bumb-bell shaped idle ports and are equipped with idle port plug #11B-27 not drilled.

Now I can not tell you that any Bay City castings were used in carburetors used by other manufacturers. I can tell you that not all "C" carburetors have parts indentified with Chevrolet part numbers. In fact some that I have worked on do not have any parts with the Chevrolet numbers. I will attempt to pay attention in the future when I work on a "C" carburetor to record whether it has Carter or Chevrolet numbers. I do know that only a very few of the hundreds of Carter carburetors that I have rebuilt have had Chevrolet part numbered parts. The vast majority have had Carter or aftermarket numbers. So far I have never found a '30-31 with a tag with the Chevrolet number 836300 nor for that matter any pre-32 Carter with the Chevrolet number. I do have some '32 and later Carter W-1 carbs with the Chevrolet numbers in the brass tags and some with the Carter numbers.

Hey Chipper Dipper! Thanks for all of the great information regarding the carburetor bulletins. I have many of those in my collection as well. However, still, none of that information states that the carburetors made in the Bay City factory were not designed by Chevrolet. The bulletins do state, however, that there were specific differences between the carburetors made with the "C" cast on the bodies at the Bay City factory and those made by Carter in the St. Louis factory. Why? Is it because those carburetors made in the St. Louis factory were designed by Carter and those made in the Bay City factory were designed by Chevrolet?

Also, what about the Chevrolet blue prints of carburetors designed by Chevrolet Motor Division? Those blue prints show all of the internal parts of a specific carburetor and each part is listed with a Chevrolet part number, and the blue prints themselves have the Chevrolet part number for the complete carburetor assembly, and it says "Chevrolet Motor Division" on the blue prints. And, on some of the blue prints there are specific notes made regarding the "Carter" counterpart.

As you know, even some of the earlier updraft carburetors, like the 150-S for example, had the "C" cast on the body and on those carburetors the low speed idle tubes and the multiple jets used the Chevrolet part numbers and not the Carter part numbers. Also, I have had several of these "C" cast type 150-S carburetors come into my shop that did have the Chevrolet part number on the brass tag.

Further, on the early, all original untouched W-1's that I have received for rebuilding that had the "C" cast on, all of the internal parts had the Chevrolet part numbers, not the Carter part numbers, and the brass tags were stamped with the Chevrolet part numbers as well. Sure, like you I have had many "C" cast carburetors come into the shop with a mismatch of parts.....some with the Chevrolet part numbers, some with the Carter part numbers, and some with aftermarket part numbers, but those carburetors had been rebuilt a zillion times previously and obviously parts were changed over the years.

This has been a very interesting discussion. However, until someone can come up with documented information stating why carburetors made in the Bay City factory were different than those made in the St. Louis factory, and why "C" carburetors made in the Bay City factory used Chevrolet part numbers, then I will have to stick with the theory that those "C" cast carburetors were designed by Chevrolet and not Carter.

:) :grin:

Lots of great info in response to my original ignorance. Reading old posts on other topics has been likewise educational.

Update on the Bay City plant in Michigan.

Just out of curiosity, several of us did some research concerning the Bay City factory and we have come up with the following information concerning the Bay City plant:

The Bay City plant was opened by General Motors in 1916 and there is still a plant there to this day. Currently, it's part of the General Motors Powertrain Division. However, years back Chevrolet parts were made there also. Also, a recent news story dated March 7, 2007 concerning the General Motors Bay City plant states, in part, the following:

"From Michigan to Mexico, from New York to Shanghai, General Motors Powertrain in Bay City continues to make and supply auto parts for manufacturers around the world.

In all, the plant pays about $4.7 million in property taxes each year, which helps Bay County out, too. Powertrain Bay City's employment numbers have dwindled over the past several decades from the heyday when about 4,500 workers were employed there. Less than 15 percent of those jobs remain today, and parts of the plant now sit empty. The plant's days of making products such as carburetors, hood ornaments, door handles and headlights are gone. Today, workers focus on making parts like piston pins, connecting rods, camshafts, oil pumps and channel plates."

Also, we checked into the past history of the Carter Carburetor Corporation, including a list of corporations in the Bay City area, and so far we can find no information indicating that Carter ever had a factory in Bay City.

But.....we are still digging!

:) :grin:

Okay...we have just about exhausted all avenues of research and still there is no listing for a Carter Carburetor plant in Bay City, Michigan. So, with the facts at hand it appears to be definite that the Bay City plant was in deed owned by General Motors and the carburetors made there ("C" cast on the carb. body) were designed by Chevrolet. And, the carburetors made by Carter Carburetor Corporation (no "C" cast on the carb. body) were made in the St. Louis plant only.

:) :grin:

Do the "C" carburetors have the same patent numbers in cast that the Carter W-1s have? Is it possible they were built by Chevrolet under license to Carter and were designed by Carter, perhaps refined by Chevrolet engineers? That was the scenario when Hitachi built S.U. type carbs for Nissan.

And Carter built Quadrajets for GM in the later years.

It is good to hear more about the W-1 carburetors I am waiting for this wet snow to go so I can check the junk yard that has a bus load of carburetors that I can go through. from the information I have received I will be looking for a Carter W-1 with a tag # 483-S this is for my 1941 town sedan. I can not locate a GM 3 in the master parts catalog that corresponds to my car{ I can't figure it out :whistle: } but if any one has any other #'s I should look for when I go please let me know even if there is one you are looking for. I will be paying 50.00 for a complete core. thanks again for the information