VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 Carb Rebuild

My rebuilt '34 engine (460 miles) which has been sitting in a Museum for 35 years needs a carb cleaning and or rebuild. I have a local mechanic that's familiar with the Carter, but being as the car won't run reliably to get to him could I just pull the carb and take it to him or should I have the whole car towed there? I just got done pushing it 1/2 mile to get home today. My regular mechanic and I flushed the fuel tank today and put an inline filter coming out of the tank, cleaned and gapped the plugs set the timing and octane regulator and did a complete lube. But we could only get the engine to idle at about 750 RPM's before stalling, ran pretty good for a few miles then stalled out, got it restarted and stalled out again so I'm pretty sure the carb is gummed up from sitting idle or just not tuned properly, any of you pros have any advice as to how I should proceed? 1934 Standard Sedan.
Thanks in Advance
Andy

The carb. rebuild kits are available from the Filling Station-if you have a 1934 carb. it kit #FS-486 for $39.50.
There is probably dirt in the low speed jet causing the poor idle but the unit should be rebuilt.
My advise would be to have an expert do the job-one that has all the necessary gauges,etc.There is such a person in the VCCA....jyd@ccountry.net.
Its common to have fuel/dirt/rust problems after the long storage.The gas should have been drained from the tank years ago.Before I would invest in carb. work I would be sure the tank is clean by removing it and sending it to a radiator shop for cleaning.Then blow out the gas lines and clean out the fuel pump.Other wise you could be back to square one after spending a lot of money.
As a trial I would remove the carb.,pull out the low speed jet and clean the tiny hole in it and give it a try.The jet is not supposed to be reinsatalled but it would give you an idea whats going on.Its not a difficult job.

As a carb rebuilder I first recommend replacing the fuel pump diaphram. The older ones only last a very short time with modern fuel, particularly oxygenated. Get a diaphram material used with modern fuel. They are available from several people for $ 10 or less. A rebuild kit is available that has several new parts but most only require an new diaphram. The '34 is a one year pump but uses the same part as earlier and later.

Once you are certain that you have reliable fuel supply and ignition system then consider sending to a carb expert. Some generalists can clean them and add a few gaskets but those with experience and special tools in rebuilding the Carter W-1 are the only ones recommended. There are a few in the VCCA. Make sure that the rebuilder of any parts will guarantee satisfaction. Also get an estimate before authorizing repairs. I have rebuilt carbs that were supposedly "rebuilt" by people who advertise in antique vehicle publications. Most charged much more than I would have and did. Caveat Emptor!

Andy:
You should also check to be sure you have a '34 carb on your car. Sounds simple, but be careful as there were something like 40+ different models of Carter W-1's. The wrong jets and metering rods in the wrong carb will not make you a happy camper! If you can, give us a description of the carb from the brass tag (if it's still on), the casting number on the fuel bowl or mounting flange and the number of screws on the air horn (2 or 3). That way we can help identify which W-1 you have and you can get the right kit...or have it done by a pro.

The brass tag shows 284S on it. You guys are very helpful and I appreciate your time and knowledge. I think I'd be most confidant sending the carb to one of you that would be willing to take the job of rebuilding it.
One or two more novice questions. With the choke pushed all the way in (off) and the engine cold should the butterfly be fully open, mine is about 2/3 rd's closed. Also would trying a carb cleaning product be advisable? This engine was very professionally rebuilt so I have my doubts that there are worn parts in the carb with less then 500 miles on it, I tend to think that it's just gunked up or some obstruction in the jet, hence my question about a cleaning product.

Oh yeah, the fuel pump was just replaced a few weeks ago and is working fine.I'm fairly sure it's a dirty carb.

The 284S is a 1934 Master carb....It has a larger venturi than the Standard but I see no reason that it would not work OK on the smaller standard engine.
When the choke button is pushed in the choke valve should be full open.Loosen the screw that locks the lever to the wire and slide the lock on the wire till the choke valve is open.
Its difficult to say exactly what was done when the engine was rebuilt.Some never look at the carb...and some may rebuild it but I would doubt if it was replaced with a new unit.Some how a Master was installed during the life of the car.Yes, I would bet its varnished up form the old gas that was in the tank.The engine should have never been starter til the fuel system was cleaned out.

Yeah you're right , it looks like the 285S was for the Standard '34. The repair manual lists the size of the 284S as 1 1/4" and the 285S as 1 3/16" so the venturi is 1/16" difference, correct? Now I'm wondering if the engine was swapped out also or just the carb. How can I tell the difference between the 207 and the 216?

The Master had a 207 cubic inch engine.The Standard engine was 181 cubic inches and had the water pump set into the front of the cylinder head-the Master was set down lower into the block.
The engine casting number on the lower right side of the block would be 473741 for a Std and 837231 for the Master.Large raised numbers.
The engine serial number is on a little raised pad just back from the fuel pump.May be painted over as it is stamped in.With it I could tell which month the engine was made.
The 216 engine came out in 1937 and had the oil filler and dip stick on the right side-was a completely different engine.

If the slowest speed that the engine will run then the low speed jet is likely plugged. It is easy to have happen with old fuel or after a short while with the modern gas. The best carb cleaner is Berryman's B-12. Second is Wal-Mart brand which is 1/3 the price. Most of the others are worthless for removing the gum and varnish from oxygenated gas.

The low speed jet can be removed from the outside. It is slotted screw head facing down near 2 o'clock with the carb upside down and the float bowl at 3 o'clock. Make sure you have a bladed screw driver that exactly fits the slot and take care not to slip out of the slot or the rebuilder that follows you will cuss a blue streak. The jet can be reused if the tip is expanded slightly so it fits back gas tight. Since the metering hole near the screw is tiny you will need a fine wire or drill bit to clean it. Take care not to enlarge the hole. It may be possible to soak it open or use air pressure. Once cleaned make sure the passages in the carb are also open and gas or air can flow freely.

Thanks Gene, I found the nimbers on the block, it is the standard #473741, has GM J94 above it The serial number is 143721 although the 1 at the beginning and end look like a capital "I", but I'm assuming they are the number"1"

Thanks Chipper I'll look for that carb cleaner.

I ordered the carb rebuild kit, but looking at previous posts I see that the metering rod does not come with the kit,should I proceed without a new one hoping the existing one is fine or should I try to find one. Reading one of Chippers posts he noted that the 384S uses a 75-101 (65A-46). Anyone have an extra for sale?

At Chipper, got the Berryman cleaner but need to trickle charge my battery before trying to get it started again.

One more question for ya'll, what adhesive is reccommended to secure the running board rubber?

Found out the problem, there are several hairline cracks in the verturi,trading in my carb for a rebuilt and returning the carb rebuild kit back to The Filling Station since it hasn't been opened. Guess those cracks explain why it ran so lean and the choke had to be kept at 1/2 to 2/3rds closed. I think it was $160.00 to switch out the carbs, would have cost more to rebuild the one I had, glad the cracks were found before starting the rebuild. Thanks again guys for all your help and information.
Andy

Now you know why it was in a museum.Usually the case when the owner can't get it runnig well enough to drive....or get it completed.
At least you will know the innards of the car when your done.Don't loose hope, its part of the fun.
I have a replacement universal 1933-36 under dash and under hood wire harness if you need help determining wire size, etc....didn't think of that the other day.

I won't lose hope, like I said before learning the car is the fun part. I don't like owning and driving a vehicle unless I know how everything operates. Yeah, I'd certainly be interested in that harness, just tell me how much and I'll send you a check for the harness and postage.

Also since I can't find a '34 temp guage I was thinking of getting one I could mount under the dash on a hinge so I can fold it out of sight for shows and such.
Thanks