VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Something is rotten in Denmark (Flint)

Hello Everyone,

It is very obvious to me that we have many board members that are very interested in making the VCCA continue into the next century. I can personally tell you that Dave Cavagnaro, Don Williams, Leigh Wilcox and Bill Bradford are very committed to seeing the VCCA continue to grow. With out some of the items which were talked about at the board meeting, the club will continue to decline over the years. Put it this way, I’m not getting any younger.

Being one of the younger members of this club, I’m an odd ball that likes 32 Chevrolet’s, our main goal is to keep this club going and advancing into the future and at the same time having fun. But our main problem is we are still thinking like a club from the 60’s and 70’s. As some of you know I’m the director of the Columbia River Region this year and every time I start a meeting, I wonder, what is going to happen to the club in 10 years? The majority of our region is over 60 and our region in Portland is one of the largest. I still wonder what happen to all the kids that I use to play with at meets and tour’s? Well, I can tell you we are not the only groups wondering where the younger group is. I have many friends at work which are all in there 30’s and are very involved and they are telling me there groups are asking the same question. But I’m here to tell you, being a member of a club or group is not a cool thing in the younger generations eyes. Just ask 42bill’s daughter, she will tell you the same thing. How many people were members of a club or band when you were in high school? Well when I graduated in ’91 you had a hard time just getting enough kids to even have a club or band. What we need to do is find a connection with the younger crowed, people below the age of 40. That connection is the internet, if you didn’t already know that. Also it is the older generation’s connection to the younger generation.

So as I can see it, we need Bill more then any time in the past. He is the only person that I know of that can make this chat site continue and work to better the club. I’m with Don Boltz and everyone else, we need Bill Barker to stay. But we can’t just ask Bill to stay and be the web master of the chat site, he quite. We need to make the board of directors see that the club needs him to stay. So what I’m proposing is a petition to the board of directors asking them to have Bill stay. If everyone is willing to do this, I’m willing to collect the e-mails from everyone. I would think if we sent over a hundred names to Michel Jones asking to have Bill stay on as webmaster we might get somewhere. Once this is done, then we have means to move the club into the 21 century and know that it will continue. Who is with me? Once we have Bill back then we can move on to fixing the other problems at hand.

P.S. Chevrolet, what you just said would surely ruin this GREAT CLUB.

P.S. When you e-mail me please tell me you VCCA number. It will make this petition more meaningful knowing it came from careing club members.

bruced@pacifier.com

Double Wow!

EGW Stated:

Good Ol Boys, Good New Boys...What's the difference. The VCCA has been held hostage by the same bunch since day one. The only difference between the old and the new is that the new boys have computer skills. What the club needs is a total frame-off restoration (and make sure you take lots of pictures ).

Bill-

Don't let these guys sway you. You made your decision....stick with it!

Don't blame the "good old guys"....I know some of the "good old guys" that would like to get off the board....they stay on because no one wants to take their place.
Now here a chance for some younger, more "up to date" members to consider contributing their time and talents.

Just curious...

Have any of you ever consider that none of this would have happened if Bill and his committee hadn't attempted to have this site closed to non-members.

It all started a few years ago when one whining National Board member got his feelings hurt on Chatter. He assumed that the person who done him wrong was a non-member, and he began his campaign to ban all non-members from participating on this site. But, most of you don't know about that, because it's all buried in the private moderator's forums. This is what happens when you set up a system that is designed to keep information from others because a small group thinks they know what's best for everyone else.



The consequences of that person's petty actions are finally coming to bare, and the National Board member who is responsible doesn't have the backbone to talk about it outside of private forums and board meetings. I've got to hand it to him, though...he's gone by the book, followed all the rules, and fooled lots of people. He's hidden in the background and let others take the heat. He just may pull it off.

As a relatively new member, there seems to be a lot of political struggling going on here. I`m don`t know whats going on back in the board room but as a simple backyard mechanic I think these issues need to be resolve there. From where I stand I joined and started receiving the G & D which I cherish. This open forum is great but it is turning into a place to open up a lot of wounds and cause divisions. The protocol with issues like this is best served by our elected board members and I would suggest we get on with keeping our old Chevrolet puttin on down the road!!! At least, that`s the issues I want to deal with!!

Speedline:

Good ole boys are people who serve on the Board for more than 20 years and can not see a tree in the woods. They know that the woods are there, but they haven't walked through the woods in so long that they don’t know that half of the trees have been cut down and a new development has been built.

Your quote:

“National Board member who is responsible doesn't have the backbone to talk about it outside of private forums and board meetings”

I’m trying really very hard to take you seriously, but you refuse to sign your name here…and you’re a Moderator ????? !!!! Where’s your backbone guy?

Your quote:

“This is what happens when you set up a system that is designed to keep information from others because a small group thinks they know what's best for everyone else.”

I really think you need to check out some of the other web sites that are available to other clubs. You can register for a show and the software knows what vehicles you own and what awards they have won. You can renew your membership on a secure site, one where you have your own pass words (just like eBay), you can change your address online, you don’t have to write a letter or make a dozen calls to get everything changed and then wait for the change to happen.

Everyone is talking about how to attract new and younger members. You have to approach them with a selling tool they understand…and Speedline, you and I are using that tool right now to communicate !!

You know who I am,
Elizebeth

I quote Leigh Wilcox " that the use of this forum does not become the format for personal vendetta or character assination"

elizabeth's description of othjer clubs websites is right on. NCRS's website allows members-only to do exactly what elizabeth describes. mike

Since this thread started, This Is the first time I have seen so many people on the chat site getting Involved with the VCCA problems at hand. I think the sleeping giant has been awakened and as time goes on we just may see a better run club. What I would wonder about Is, Are some of the people on the board completely against the new changes to be made to modernize our club. From what I have heard, There are many motions shot down because they do not want to take a stand, Or not even vote, Or maybe be afraid that they may step on someones toes. I really do believe like Young Bruce DeFord says, Some are stuck back In the sixtys and seventys, And cannot see whats happening In todays world since the age of computors came about. We are the ones who elect them and we are the ones who need to be heard. Also I do not understand how a publisher of our magazine would not even have a computer. That Is what I would really call being stuck back In time, And still have all the data only on paper. Also we as a club have no data In our control of membership or anything else that the editor has on paper and which they control 100 percent. Now Is the time to email Bruce DeFord and get the ball rolling for a betterment of our club. We are the majority and the ones who will have the say so. I love chevrolets and the friends I have found because of them and the VCCA. Lets stick together and make the changes for a better club.

EGW-

Some people think that new developments are a blight, and prefer the woods just as they are.

Yes, I am a Moderator. Is this a great Country, or what!

The only person who needs to know who I am already does. As a matter of fact, that National Board member has been logged on all morning. If you need proof that what I say is fact, log on to the Notices & Instructions forum and the Moderator Tips & Gossip forum and see for yourself . Oops! You can't. You don't have access to them! Maybe Bill will give me permission to email them to you.

I think this site has driven away just as many as it has attracted. Just because it exists doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. I would refer you to your previous "development in the woods" analogy.

There are lots of members who have never logged on to this site and don't care to. What about them? Fink Publishing produces an award winning magazine every month, and without their skills, all of those non-Chatter members would be without the magazine that is their one connection to the club. Mrs. Fink should be given credit for standing up to the board. It has been reported here that the vote was "8 opposed, 7 in favor and 2 abstain". There is clearly another side to this story that has yet to be defended here.

Actually, Elizabeth, I don't know you from a hole in the wall. :confused:

It seems to me there's a number of people trying to make us think they are right here in plain sight, right in front of us; but in reality they are actually hiding from us.

What's with that???

Bill.

we have come down to people making the wrong statements such as the publisher not haveing a computer being stuck back in time . in control of the membership the editor has on paper . none of these and others are correct . i have attended several board meetings to see how the process works no i was not paid . the issue here is moving the club into the 21 st century from just a club to being run some what like a business . job descriptions . contracts and other thing other than a hand shake . we have a membership sect. that has the club information on cards not data in a computer . she may not own a computer but she is paid to do this service the editor of the g&d uses this info as a tool to do their job printing the labels for the g&d . i do not know if the editor has been paid to enter this information in a data program or not if not it is their tool . as they need this to produce the g&d the secretary can imform us on this . i have talked to my area rep. and what i get out of the meeting is there are second quesses to the inital motion about cost and other issues on the data contract like money that may have turned it down . and the g&d people not wanting to give the data they have collected which would make the transition less costley . in my report and i was not there it sounded like there was things said that should not have been but at these meetings it has happened before and will happen again if you look at our profile of our board members it is very wide and we should be thankful to have them it is a non paying job and they want the best for the club even if they cant agree to agree . in the pass we have had issues and seem to get them worked out and this one will too in time we will get more of the facts and figures of the problem and maybe people will not put out facts or statements that are not correct

A few salient thoughts. I am trying to be a responsible Board member here, and report to you just the facts, and answer some of the concerns and possibly some misconceptions in this very important string. I am trying to keep my own opinions out of this, forgive me if some slip through, it’s not intentional.

Yes, there really are many Board members who have no idea / no interest in computers, chat sites, websites, et cetera. In fact, a slim majority.

And yes, we have a large number of members in the VCCA that also have no interest in this type of technology. We need to continue to provide those members with the services they desire (basically a subscription to the G&D), just like we did in 1965 and 1985. That’s fine, not a problem.

BUT - it is incumbent on the Board to also recognize the existence of this electronic / virtual world in which we are participating at this very moment. There are virtual car “clubs” out there (out here) that have more members than we do. Many collect dues. Many of the members are considerably younger than our median member age. That might just be the future. And we are missing them, and our membership is on a slow, but definite, decline

The proposal that was defeated, that is largely the subject of this string, was an effort to create a modern internet-based membership database. Right now, the Membership Secretary (a wonderful gal - that’s not the point) has had the job literally since the 1960’s. She has no computer. She sends written paper data to Fink Printing where it is entered into a proprietary computer. Fink Printing is paid to do this data entry, yes, every month for 12 years.

What if one of them gets mad and quits? What if there’s a fire? What if the Membership Secretary gets hit by a bus? These are some of the concerns that caused the Board to consider moving ahead to a modern electronic database (similar to what virtually all other organizations of this size did long ago).

The benefit of having a “secure chat site” that would allow ”˜members-only’ access was strictly a side benefit, not the primary motivation.

Many other side benefits also exist - the ability to renew your membership in a few seconds on-line; to change your address on line; to register for a VCCA car show on-line, etc, etc.

I see many opportunities arising from this string. Here are some of my thoughts about what we should do:

Mr. Barker is working on several fronts, which is his right. He knows what he is doing, and has shared some of that here.

Those of you who are concerned enough about what you are reading on this string to take action, here are some suggestions for what you might do. Work within the system - make Motions - submit them to any Board member. If you don’t know how, ask. Take your time and think through what you want to say, be logical. If you take the time to create a Motion and submit it to a Board member IT CANNOT BE IGNORED. It will go to the Operations Committee, it will then go to the appropriate Committee for review, AND IT WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE G&D FOR ALL TO SEE. It might not pass. But it will definitely have an impact. It won’t change things tomorrow, but it WILL have an impact. If 5 of you do that (and it isn’t hard, nor does it take very much time) it will make a definite statement. If 10 of you do so, it will make a loud statement. If 50 of you do so, IT WOULD CREATE A REVOLUTION!

The longest Journey begins with a single step. Nero is still watching the flames…….

Don Williams
National Board Member

well put don. mike

Someone asked.

How did Mrs. Fink become a Director and also the publisher of the G&D?

Publisher, because the BOD and the members had a need and the Finks provided an economical solution to the need.

How did Mrs. Fink become a Director, why don't you ask the members of her region that elected her?

The questions that seems important to me are:

Are the proposed by laws changes going to accomplish what the majority of VCCA members want and need?

How did the Finks become the only ones with access to the Membership Database? Did they create it on their own in order to expedite the mailing of the G&D?

Did the BOD know anything about the ownership statas of the database?

Did the BOD have a care about the database access until they decided to make VCCAChat.org a Members only web site?

Is it not possible for the database to be created and maintained with volunteer staff?

Who is going to be willing to oppose some of the Board Members in an election of Directors, when they are our friends and we think they are doing the best job they know how to?

Is it about time that we raise dues and hire a professional operations management team for VCCA to handle the day-to-day operations of VCCA under direction of the BOD?

Is that what the majority of the VCCA members want?

Was the conflict at the National Board Meeting about the cost of the proposal or was it about the shift of power it could have caused?.... Or both?

Who knows what the majority of VCCA members want? …. I don’t think we can go by their voting record, most of them don’t vote in National elections.

Why don’t a majority of the members vote?

Is the idea of a 100% volunteer staffing operation obsolete and inadequate?

How about what the majority of VCCA members want?

Do they want change? Or do they say it isn’t broke and “don’t fix it if it isn’t broke!

These are questions I would like answered.

Maybe even in my lifetime.

I am answering each of MrMack's very good questions privately, so as not to overflow the system.

Thanks!
BTY
I was typing and spell checking and copying and pasting my previous post on Word ,as suggested by Billy, while others were posting answers to my questions, better late than never, I reckon.....
As Push said, we will get past this crisis" or words to that effect.

Working together to effect comprimise will make us a stronger club, all of us can't have it our way, majority rules!

I've been reading the recent posts with interest and concern, but didn't know just how to jump in and add anything constructive until I read Bruce's suggestion for support of Bill Barker.

I'm a charter member of the Puget Sound Region of VCCA, which will be 40 years old next summer. Being in my 60s I still hold on to some old school ways of life, but realize our club needs to get on board with the computer age. Whether, or not the chat site is used to recruit members by keeping non members from posting, I think the logical link to the next generation is through the computer.

I have known Bill for a number of years now and have enjoyed his dedication and enthusiasm for our region's activities, and although I'm not very active in the club, I can recognize Bill's passion for the betterment of the hobby. His detachment from this site would surely be a loss to the integrity of the site, which will also reflect on the whole club.

Bill Barker has given us a taste of how this site can deliver with the spread of knowledge and know-how that might be locked in the head of an old time member, otherwise reachable through the mail. The club members need to let their board member know how they feel about this important matter which might be the catalyst needed to bring our great club into the computer age and improving growth.

Roger

don well put but one question i actually have several but mack will streighen that out the question is vcca paid fink printing to enter membership data in finks private computer and because they have the data in hand it is their data and not vcca do they want a fee to duplicate or not give at all ?

Pushrod-

I just spent 90 minutes typing my answers to MrMack.

The answer to your question is long, and complex; and I am not comfortable answering it in this forum.

If you will send me an email telling me your actual name so I can confirm that you are a member in my Roster (I can already see your town in TX), I will send you a copy of what I sent MrMack by private direct email.

My email address is: DonWmsProp@aol.com


<Edit> Many of you are asking for this, which I am happy to do. Please include the STATE you live in (I don't need the town) because the Roster is organized by State. Thank you.

Don Williams

So many logical and salient points being made here. Nice to see such understanding and concerned people and members. But then I have never had my doubts about the quality of VCCA’s membership.

It’s always been my view that 95% of all members {people} are good, fun, bright, respectful people who care about others, the club and themselves. And I am opposed to taking my time for the 5%-ers. As my Dad told me, “You'll always notice them because they float." And as a human Development Specialists I notice the 5% ers.

Mack {and several others} ask some very fair and reasonable questions, so I will respond:
“Who is willing to oppose some of the Board Members in an
election of Directors ?

I’ll look into running. I don’t know if I qualify or have the correct back ground, but I do know what improvements are and I would work hard for every member openly and honestly.
I’m not sure who I’d replace, but I am sure I would be respectful.

“Is it about time that we raise dues and hire a professional
operations management team for VCCA operations under
direction of the BOD?”

I am aware of this type of position and I can offer some valuable advice on this point.

I will also look into writing some points, ideas or thoughts and submitting them to the board for review.

And finally, I'm ready, if asked, to offer my occupational assistance to the Board about helping them resolve and work through this issue.

Keep up the good work. Everyones points have merit. And every point or expression brings more value and understanding to the issue {s}. And remember, the reason people take the time to express is because they care.

Michael41

Fellow VCCA Members

Your concerns and suggestions can have an effect only when you contact your Area and/or At-Large National Board Members and let them know your feelings. As has been pointed out, this is not the form for further airing of any grievences.

This is your (VCCA Members) club, let us know how you feel.

Ken Farley
National Board Member

With that reply I would suggest that this thread should be closed......before more damage is done.