VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Something is rotten in Denmark (Flint)

Wow, an eye opening experience!

Caught some of the board meetings up in Flint. now on the one hand there are a lot of people doing a lot of work to make the club work that we have no idea about. but there are also problems, let me tell you.

The most mind boggling exchange was over a big project that some of the board members had been assigned to work on for a couple of years. I think it was mostly to figure out a better way to do some of the work that gets done for keeping the member data base, or that’s what I made of it. It sounds like this is done in a very old type of way with pencil and paper and they want to computer-ize it and make it work in a modern way. Now heres the problem. Most of us think of Jean Fink as a motherly figure that smiles and puts out the GnD. Wrong! She seems more like Saddam Hussein ranting and raving and yelling. She made threats against the whole board that if things didn’t go her way she would quit and steal the member data and leave the club. I kid you not. It was like I will take my toys and go home if you don’t play my way. I couldn’t believe they took it and didn’t just fire her, call her bluff. Many of them fought her, I could reasonably say the ones that seemed to be smarter and more business man types. But many of them just seemed to be on vacation or something (and not real sharp), and didn’t seem to understand what was being done to them, and caved in to her by a small majority. It was disgusting, and I would even call it extortion or at least blackmail. She has a grip on the boards privates and isn’t afraid to pull hard on it! Well she definitely killed this big project and she says she owns the member data and we can pound sand, and she makes a lot of money from our dear old club and she pretty much runs things when it comes down to anybody threatening her grip!

She should be fired and they should maybe have called in the fbi to look into her was my impression.

Well maybe she will read this and reply, I hate to see divisions start within a club, they get like cancer.

FlyOnTheWall

I don't know Jean Fink and I didn't attend the meeting, so I can't comment on what took place, but I do think your comments in this open forum are inappropiate.

33 chevy, this isn't something that just started by any means. it was obvious it was already old news and the cancer is already very very deep.

Oldie, I think my comments here are exactly what is needed. we get a sanitized version of what goes on in the GnD (and who decides what goes in - the editor!) this was 2 days worth.

There was a move to say Fink was in a conflict of interest being paid (a lot) by the club and on the board too to make sure things stayedd her way. There are some that fight her for our benifit it looks like but not enough of them. Let me look at my notes and I can name names if you want.

The membership needs to know this problem, and how else but this free forum can they find out.

This was a very serious thing not just a little disagreement. It was serious enough Bill Barker said he was resigning from running this chatsite. and one of the officers stood up and said the club took several major steps backwards today, and 2 of the board members said this was it they were done and wont run again. It was pretty ugly. one guy (I think Bradford that quit being vice pres) had honest tears and said this was bad news for the board and the club.

The way Jean Fink puts it we are members of Jean Fink Publishing company not members of VCCA.

Put it tihs way. if somebody had been in the board meetings of Enron and enron had a chatsite like this maybe they could have put out the word like I am trying to do here.

FlyOnTheWall, please identify yourself so we may determine the validity of your observations.

Well Fly On The Wall, I have no problem with the reporting of what went on at the Board Meeting, and with the added information of your second posting on this subject, I too have concerns for what you said took place. Since we are an all volunteer organization, it's sad to hear that resignations may have occured as a result of some issue before the Board. I do believe that in due time reasonable people will find ways to resolve tough issues.

I appreciate your willingness to tell us what occurred at the Board meeting, but I still feel that statements like "She Seems more like Saddam Hussein" and "She has a grip on the boards privates and isn’t afraid to pull hard on it!" are not things that should be said in an open forum for both members and non-members to mull over. Those items were my initial complaints about your statements.

The fact the "FlyOnThe Wall" fails to identify himself,his VCCA number, and is new to this site makes his entire agenda very suspicious to me.Sounds like some one with an AX to grind. :confused:

Gentlemen-

As a National Board Member, I was obviously present in Flint. I have been watching this string with great interest.

I do not know who "FlyOnTheWall" is, but I can confirm for you that what he has posted here is reasonably accurate.

I am not endorsing his comments, nor disagreeing. I am simply stating that the person making these posts was certainly present. There were several people in the gallery through much of the meeting.

I think we might reasonably forgive his desire to remain anonymous, given what he is bringing to us. Perhaps we should explore the content of what he has to say, instead of getting hung-up on his identity.

Don Williams
National Board Member

Just to add to Don's statement as a fellow Board Member. I am not agreeing nor disagreeing, just verifying that accounts mentioned by the "Fly" were very specific to the meeting and could only have been given by someone who was there.
John Mahoney
National Board Member

Oldie, I am sorry my choice of words seemed to strong to you I was just trying to make my point clear. Maybe I should have chosen a better way to put it. I didn’t know Fink before this either.

Thank You to the board members that were brave enough to post on here that what I am saying is real.

Now that I heard all of this in Flint I don’t want my identity out there with the all the threats that were made by Fink and the power they seem to have I don’t want a knock on my door in the middle of the nite. or I might never get the GnD again at the least.

I think she is in a conflict of interest big time being on the board that has to vote to pay her big money. like I said they voted to make that illegal but only a handful had the brass to say so. And the idea that she has a death-grip on the data of the members seemed way out of line to.

the goings on at the vcca board meeting are reminiscent of the ordeal NCRS went thru about 20 years ago. the origianl board members of NCRS were slowly replaced with elected volunteers and the salaried employees now answer to the buisnedd manager who answers to the elected board members. it took a couplke years to get thru it. mike

So what if she quits and takes the member's data. Isn't it all published in the new Roster anyway?

I myself am not very happy that a board member is publishing the monthly information. It's like the U.S. Government having control of all the newspapers.

If Fly is accurate (and it appears other Board members agree) I would like to hear her version of what happened. I also would like to see it happen here on Chatter in Member's only forum so we don't have to wait months to hear the truth.

Here here...!

RGwiz-

The Roster is simply a fixed snapshot in time. Members renew every day, expire every day, and new people join every day.

Many people have joined, expired, or renewed just since the date of the Roster (12-31-05).

Also, the Roster does not include expiration dates.

Doesn't the Membership Secretary have membership records?

Back Roads -

While it is true that the Membership Secretary has a record, the reality is that it is on “paper only.” The Membership Secretary does not have a computer.

I don't mean to be argumentative or sound like the CIA but.....

FOTW would NOT have had to be at the Natl Board Mtng in Flint to 'report' the info he/she did.

Anyone who was actually there (Board Member, spouse, 'guest' etc. etc.) could have relayed the info to FOTW who in turn posted it here in CC.

It is thought by more than just a handful of CC folks that FOTW is also the 'original' "Gator" and also "Louie C." and also the 'new' "Gator.".

To me, it does seem odd that FOTW could be so involved with all this high level stuff having just registered on March 1 and having only 4-5 posts prior to all this.

Bill.

42bill, will you stop using my name in reference to FOTW, because you really don't know what you are talking about.

Now a question on the topic; where can I find out who is paid and how much they are paid by the VCCA?

Louis C. -

As the National Treasurer, I am not certain what information I can divulge on this forum, which is visible to the public-at-large.

However, the answer to this question for SOME of the places the money goes is published on page 12 of the August 2005 G&D. Not visible there, of course, are the sums we spend for publications, board meetings, advertising, et cetera.

Don Williams
National Board Member

Thank you for the reply.

Some of this sounds like repeats of several years ago when the first Editors of the G&D quit. Keep in mind there have only been two editors in 45 years! Computerizing the membership list has been an issue for a number of years. The business that prints the G&D ( Fink Printing ) probably has the only copy of a computerized list. Yes, not just do they get paid as the editors they print it also. I'm only stating known facts here. I think, like Oldie; we should avoid personal attacks on any person in this open forum. Since this information is and can be seen by anyone with an interest in Vintage Chevrolets. Why would anyone want to join a club in such term oil..

Does this mean that if there is a fire/earthquake at Fink Printing the VCCA is out of business??

Do we have some sort of data back up for emergencies?

Okay, I'm here now. Thanks to the people who called me at work today to tell me about his thread. But I was unable to look at it until just now. I'll add my two cents worth in a second posting in a little while. As long as the discussion here doesn't get too animated, AND doesn't slander anyone else, I'm going to let it ride. However... if people begin to name names, or add any further derogatory comments, then we'll have to close it.

Please abide by our USAGE POLICY

Personally, I'm not in favor of airing our dirty linen in public -- which further adds to the original need for us to have a membership database so that we could have a closed set of forums for members only.... but I don't want to beat THAT horse any longer. I already got my say in Flint.

See my personal comments which will be posted under my personal account shortly.

To begin with, in the short time that FOTW (I like that abbreviation) posted this note, at least TWO National Board members have responded here. That's a good indication of how important this topic is.

Secondly, I would sort of have to agree, that if the information doesn't get posted here, then chances are, you'll not hear about it any other way.

And third, we definitely need to make some changes at the top.

-----
Now, I was in attendance at the entire Board Meeting this past weekend at Flint, Michigan. And I haven't posted anything here yet, since I've been extremely busy after I returned home Sunday night at 11 pm after a 2 hour delay in Chicago.

I can confirm that the "emotions" that FOTW expresses are shared by a great many of us who were there. Most of us would have stated them slightly differently, but the root cause was certainly the same.

For my part, I have decided to pursue some other, legal, methods for FORCING a change in the club. I've compiled a list of approximately 10 things that I can do, on almost 20 sheets of paper. But the one thought that I keep coming back to, is that we need to FIX the problems in such a way that it doesn't HARM or DESTROY the club. I have been a VCCA member for 33 years, and I'm not going to be remembered as the person who killed it. I am, however going to be very instrumental now in how to FIX it!!

One of the dilemmas that I've been thinking about is how to communicate this to the rest of the 8,499 National and International members of the club. Unfortunately this Forum doesn't have that broad of appeal. And as I said earlier, since this is a Public forum, I'm not sure that we should go into much detail here. It's not productive for those people who are here to WORK ON THEIR CHEVYS!!!! And that is our purpose in comraderie.

I'll summarize what I think the three major objectives ought to be right now. We need to modify the bylaws so that

• No member who has a financial stake in the club can be a Board member. And any currently in that dual role need to resign immediately.
• There needs to be valid, legally binding written contract between the VCCA and it's contractors, in particular the magazine publisher.
• There needs to be a written agreement which specifically defines the roles and responsibilities of all people who receive greater than $5,000 a year from the club for services rendered.

That's it. With those three changes, we wouldn't have had the problems in Flint that we had.

Naturally, since I posted this information, I think that this is the proper level to discuss. Any more details are probably inappropriate for reasons already noted (This is a PUBLIC board.)

If you have ideas on how a person can best express the DETAILED view of what happened at Flint, please let us know here. Other than mailing a letter to each member, which would be very expensive, the next cost-effective method is going to be to set up a table at the Anniversary Meet and have members sign a petition, after they read a detailed summary of what went down. It would truly be a shame to have to do this.

Reminder -- many, many people have access to this forum, including All Board members and the G&D Editor. It would be significantly better for all if a few people tendered their resignation rather than have the club drag this affair through the public eye and possibly the courts. We need to pursue the actions that will best serve the club. It is already obvious that there are those who would protect their own interests first.

--more about my resignation later.

Well said Bill.

It's sure too bad 'we' don't have a 'members only' portion to this great site.

It's going to be unfortunate to see all the 'comments' that likely will be posted about the matter in this PUBLIC forum. Hopefully restraint will prevail........

Bill.