VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Barrett-Jackson Auction

JYD again proves why he is our collective hero. Great stuff there. Terriffic stories, especially the no number chassis on 003. Fantastic!

Talked to some people at the auction, seems alot of these cars go to investors in a "group" for the only reason of making money, 5 -6 guys get together and "invest" just like buying stamps, and some of those cars ie a vette was one, have been through there 3 - 4 times and go on to other auctions looking for the right time,right buyer to get a killing price, the owner of the car can buy it back ie have someone bid for him and buy it back for 8 and 8...8% buyer fee 8% seller fee, 16% the price you pay to make the possible big score, sure were alot of "big wheels " there or they thought they were, standing on the stage, the cars were what they said, you could go look right at them out back, there was some fine autos there, but then some were just like you see at your local shows too, oh yeah no bidding for this guy but the hysteria was worth the price of admission,

great info on Corvette #003, thanks JYD! Papa-K's story seems to confirm what I suspected about the wild prices. I'm sure there are some potentially big buck BJ Scottsdale cars sitting in the garages of VCCA members right now just wating for the next cruise. And to think some of us just enjoy them as great old hobby cars. The big shots don't know what they're missing when they stash them away just for the money.

If anyone believes that all the prices announced for vehicles sold are legitimate then I have a historic bridge to sell you. The antique auto auctions are fraught with shills, phantom bids and other dishonest or deceitful practices. Many of the high dollar vehicles are reported to be sold at the elevated prices and are not actually sold or "sold" to a representative of the owner or other sham. Sometimes the auction company is paid "a fee" to announce the sale when a sale is not actually made. Most often the auctioneer accepts bids from the ring men that do not have an actual buyer making them. [It reminds me of "professional" acting (aka wrestling).] Since the owner is not announced nor the buyer the audience will never know what is going on and assumes that it all above board. For you guys the bridge is half price for the next 10 days so better get it fast before the price increase.

"Do I hear 1000 Dineras,".... "now 10500" ok how about 12,000, going once ,,going twice,,Sold to the mystery lady in the old red firetruck for 15,000!!!!

Now wait just a GOSH DARN minute there Mack...... What happened to "MY BID" of 15/3. WHAT A RIP OFF. Te he he.

I think Chip raises a REAL valid point! I started thinking that on my way to work on Monday. Was it me or did the prices seem realistic (still high) on Sunday afternoon! Who owns the car? who is the buyer? how come no one ever seems to know anybody who bought one, or even sold one? I just could not believe on Friday there was a 63 409 convertible went for $138,000 with RADIAL tires and FENDER SKIRTS. It was about $100,000 over price. I have a few guys who work for me that are far from car guys who were watching it on and off just see the action.
John

As an example last year at the Williams Auction in Houston a 1933 Continental Coupe was auctioned and announced as sold for $ 29,300. I did not actually see the auction but was told independently by three people that they were sure that it sold for that amount. It was announced by the auctioneer as sold and they saw three people bidding. I told each of them that the car did not sell for that price. They all told me that I was full of $&(^ (fill in your own term). So I checked with a personal friend that was working for the auction company. I asked if the car actually sold. He told me that it did not sell. Later the owner loaded it on his trailer and took it back to Conroe Texas.

I am sure that the sale was duly recorded as sold in the hobby publications. Since I no longer get any of them I could not check on that. A snake trail might be straighter than the auctions. Caveat Emptor!!!!

Seems auctioneers over there are tarred with the same brush as they are here in Aus and probly should be feathered of the same chook.
Tony

I don't see where these tales of fraud have any valid reference to the January 2006 BJ Scottsdale event.

The "big buck" sales like the Oldsmobile F-88 concept car that sold at the Barrett-Jackson auction in 2005 for three million dollars, and the 1954 Pontiac Bonneville Special concept car that sold this year for almost three million dollars, have been documented as sold and the owners of these vehicles are well known in the vintage car circles.

Regarding other auctions (especially the Kruse auctions), what Chipper Dipper has said is no doubt true. However, this may not be case with the Barrett-Jackson auctions because of the scrutiny that the company and their auctions receive.

By the way, the "historic" bridge that Chippy Dippy was referring to in his posting above.....he purchased that bridge some time ago at an auction and now he is apparently trying to unload it on some other poor unsuspecting soul.

The guy who sold the 1954 f-88 oldsmobile concept car lives about ten miles from me and we have had tours to his collection when he had the olds on display. Now I just heard that the guy who bought the car for 3 million has a lawsuit going because the car sometime back had alot of rework done to It and was not 100 percent correct from what the sellar said. Time will tell how this plays out. :rolleyes:

Now that doesn't surprise me. At the 2005 and 2006 auctions it was obvious that many of the cars were not totally as they should be. On one car this year (it was a modified Nomad as I remember) the glove box door would not close, and there were other problems with the car as well. However, it sold for big bucks anyway. Another high dollar car had a trunk lid that wouldn't close.

On the F-88 concept car, before the dude spent three million bucks on the thing he should have checked the car out closely before having a representative bid on the car for him. But, as all of us know, most of these morons have way more money than brains! As they say, "let the buyer beware".

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Absolutely caveat emptor! From what I've read, all the cars sold at BJ are sold as-is without any representation from BJ. There are "certifications" made by supposed third parties validating authenticity on some of the cars, but you can trust them as much as you choose. Any time you buy a vehicle, you need to check it out yourself. And, if you don't know enough, don't buy. Pretty simple, really. I've been burned before when buying a vehicle. Big surprise that all vehicle sellers are not entirely truthful.

If there is a lawsuit on that $3M Olds, the buyer won't have a prayer. He should have known what he was bidding on. From what I recall, that buyer was bidding on emotion of some sort. If he got burned, oh well.

Do your homework and know what you're spending your money on.

depends on the issues of the suit...for example, if there were intentional factual misrepresentations by the seller to induce the sales or affect the price, I think that they may be held responsible by the court...


epi

I can't even imagine how someone could pay $3million for an old car without totally checking the vehicle and any credentials that might authenticate it. The BJ auction people have always stressed the "as is" nature of any car they put up on the block and leave it up to the bidders to verify condition and documentation of authenticity. To toss out 3mill and cry about condition after the sale seems like the buyer needs to get his act together. Old concept cars are notorious for having less than stellar life histories and many were not saved intact.

I am reminded of my history lessons in economics, especially the Dutch Tulip Econonmy of the 1600's. This is a well-documented era in history when people throughout Europe suddenly went crazy for rare and colorful tulips. Around 1630 the demand for these flowers outpaced supply, and bidding wars erupted for ordinary flowers. In a matter of weeks tulip bulbs were being used as currency and prices (read "inflation") soared. Tulips were being used for barter and traded (read "scalped") on street corners and in taverns. By 1636 the craze was in full swing and nearly everyone was engaged in the craze. One day early in the winter of 1636 at a scheduled auction one of the key buyers failed to arrive. Then someone said the worst words anyone had heard in a long, long time: "Well, they are after all only flowers!"

A wave a panic selling spread throughout Holland and western Europe! The sudden realization that little colorful flowers were now just flowers and not priceless goods with intrinsic value sent shockwaves through the economy. Many lost their "fortunes" that had been based on simple flowers.

Is there a parallel here? Do everyday cars have intrinsic value that can command and maintain hundred-thousand dollar plus values? Or does someone dare whisper the words: "Hey, they are just automobiles!"

Coach

ITS ONLY MONEY!!

As a long time auto enthusiast who has attended many auctions, I've read the posts in this category over and over. Very interesting reading, to say the least.

I could also recount many stories.

Like the one about a Tacoma area VCCA member who purchased a 62 Corvette at the Silver Auction tied in with Hot August Nights in Reno maybe 12-15 years ago. It turned out the car was not what it was "advertised" to be. After taking possession of the car (he even brought it to the NW Meet that August) and having it for at least several weeks, probably several months, he reported all this to Mitch Silver's auction company. The short version of the story is they took the car back and the buyer had his money returned to him.

There is NO question about shill bidding, phantom bidders and buyers at some auctions. I do not know of these activities at the BJ AZ auctions. Only because those activities are 'part' of many auctions, it seems like they might happen at BJ also. I do not know that they do. And I'm not suggesting that they do.

I do know a local 'classic car dealer' who frequents these (type of) auctions and sells NICE muscle type cars. For instance, I've been watching the progress on the preparation of the 59 FI Bel Air for a year or so. There certainly isn't any doubt in my mind that was a 'real' car and did sell for $193k or whatever it was. It sure as heck didn't come back to Portland with my friend who took it to AZ.

As for a buyer who bid and bought and paid $200k or $3m for a car and then decided he didn't 'like' it or didn't want it due to a glove box lid or a trunk lid not functioning..... well, something is really nuts about that. Let's just say a high dollar resto shop charges $100 per hour for 'labor.' How in the heck could it cost more than a couple hundred bucks to 'fix' a problem like that?? Up against $200k or $3m, what the heck is $300 bucks to 'fix' some little thing like that??

Many of us could go on and on about this subject. Let's just meet up in CO and have a couple of cold ones and yack about it some more. At least at this point, I don't care to use up anymore 'storage space' here in CC.

Bill.

Say, can someone tell me how to access "results" on-line of this recent auction??

I seem to be able to come up with everything else relating to B-J. Except an item-by-item "recap" of this B-J auction in AZ just a few weeks ago.

Thanks!

Bill.

The auction results are easy to find.....just go to the Barrett-Jackson website and click on "results" in the left menu. To make it easier, go here:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/resultsbylot.asp?auctionid=53

Thanks Skippy.

Bill.

It's my humble opinion that some of the Barrett-Jackson auction cars may be worth the money since they are not normally obtainable elsewhere, however, the majority are way too high. If you look at the auction process in the "tent" you will notice their employees working the room and creating an artificial"excitement". It becomes MEGA auction fever! I wonder if those buyers will see their money back, but they will probably keep them so long that we will never get accurate feedback. Additionally you must consider that the buyer and seller pay commissions as well as the sales tax.... WOW... out of my league.