VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Educating the young to avoid the Coddington fate

Per the most recent and past discussions on the dispair and concern about conversion of original cars into rods, as well as past postings about getting younger people interested in restoration...

I found a story today in the regional section of our local paper (Troy Record, Troy NY) that addresses both issues. The Saratoga Auto Museum (http://www.saratogaautomuseum.com) has an educational outreach program, which has recently collaborated with the high school auto technology students at Saratoga Springs to rebuild and restore a '62 Impala. (Sorry for no direct lead to the story - it's not posted on the Record website). It doesn't say how the car was originally acquired, but the net result is that the students and instructor at the automotive technology center worked with the museum to bring the car back to original quality, and it is now being displayed for a year at the museum. It will then be auctioned off next year to fund the purchase of another old car for a similar restoration treatment.

It seems to me this type of museum/auto technology center collaboration really helps out in building interest and respect in original old cars, developing proper restoration skills, and providing an ongoing means of sustaining that initiative over the long run with high school kids who obviously don't have the direct memories and past experiences like us older folks. I hope this might inspire one of you folks out there to help push a similar idea elsewhere.

Lucky Kids!!!

That they have the museum willing to (help) FUND the project at their HS. And that the HS ADMINISTRATORS saw BENEFIT to the program. And that their was a TEACHER who was interested in providing the INSTRUCTION.

We used to have a 'similar' program here in Portland at a 'tech high school' but it was dropped a year or two ago when a new lady principal took over.

As I understand it her thoughts were basically that the kids would never use those 'skills' in later life and 'we' need to be 'teaching' the the kids skills they will use (in later life).

How sad!!!!

Bill.

I have a buddy who just bought a '70 Lemans with the intentions of fully restoring it and I have been teaching him for about a week on engines, bodywork, parts locating, and everything else involved in restoring a car. I am going to help him out every step of the way. Pretty cool, a kid teaching a kid!

It's not uncommon when I'm outside tinkering with my 26 to have the local kids stop by. Not all but some will suggest it being hotrodded. I explain the complications and expense and then add the history factor to include rarity of an 80 year old automobile.

Can't say how many minds I've changed but I'm sure I've changed a few. Some of those kids never entertained the idea of it being hotrodded to begin with.

That seems to fall under the category of "different strokes for different folks" rbl2. It is interesting that some of the kids "never entertained the idea of it being hotrodded to begin with." It makes me feel 'we' aren't so "goofy" afterall!!!

Bill.

HS shop classes are gone here...too much liability for the school board... :( :( :( no welding...no power tools...nothing left for the kids that needed it. :( :( :(

My,My sounds like to me you guys down in the big swamp need to ball up and take charge of the situation! Start up a couple of how to deal with a lawyer classes!

Schools are heading the same way here in Aus as well. When I was in HS we had several optional courses which included metalwork and woodwork for example. I have heard that both subjects have been deleted not only for the liability factor but the cost factor, non reusable material.
Most schools here are government run therefore suffer the reducing funds story.
Tony

When I was in school, besides the standard academic courses available, we had: wood shop, metal shop, machine shop, ceramics shop, print shop, automotive shop and drafting (both engineering drafting and architecture drafting). Now......in our local school district we have none of the above, it is strictly all academic, and the local schools are turning out a lot of "zeros" because of it. :( :( :( :(

I work for the school district here in town and the same is happening in our high school. We just had to dismantle the metal shop in one of the high schools. It would make you guys sick if you knew what we thru out.
We still offer the kids "Tech ed" at the Middle School level and the kids love it! They teach the kids the basics of design and then build the projects. Robotics is very popular and so is bridge building. Rocketry is another popular course.
Too bad they don't continue with this stuff once they get into high school.
Someone should tell these parents how much a steelworker, carpenter, or glassetter makes. Here in the northeast it is easly $50-$60 an hour!

Same thing at our local school after they closed up some classrooms. The school district had a "garage" sale last year and they were selling large metal filing cabinets for $2 each, large metal desks for $5 each, and metal shop chairs for 50 cents each. A lot of other "treasures" went away as well. And, the stuff was in nice condition too, no junk! It was unbelievable! :( :( :(

So, regarding all this 'stupidity' in the schools and ciriculum and so on: who is it that's really responsible for leading us down the garden path?? In these days of specialization it sure seems odd to be 'cancelling' all these 'tech' classes / courses!?!?!?!?!

Bill.

In Canada they did the same thing. I was in the first year of a Tech school in our town in the sixties. It took the shop courses. They got ride of the shop in the late nineties. My future son in law is now being paid by the government to learn a trade in automotive repair. Their so short of trades people that there is a signing bonus plus tool allowance. He was able to complete the three courses to get his grade 12 (required to enter program) just by going to work. Each 50 hrs was a course. He by the way help me finish my 32 and is very interested in our next project a 31. Our countries are run by lawyers I should know that's what my other son-in-law is and my daughter is more likely to know how to fix something than he is. He has no interests other than golf. And I do most repair on their house with the help of my future son-in-law. Education is a wonderful tool but not everyone needs to go to college or university. We need people who can work on cars, do electrical and plumbing. They will also likely be the ones restoring an old car themselves. I guess someone in the Ontario government finally saw the light.

I know full well what you are talking about. I own a high end cabinet and trim shop. Try hiring help they graduate high school and can not as so much as read a ruler. They have no mechanical skills and are out there looking for a job. I have a feeling most of them will end up flipping burgers at Mickey D's, or worst yet selling drugs on the street corner.
John

You guys know the saying "there are those who make wonderful things happen and those who wonder what happened". I sympathize with the issues and concerns expressed above; I started this thread to show the idea that somebody out there IS doing something about these concerns. The most interesting - and key - piece about it is the museum's support to keep this process going. This seems to be an example of how local actions by involved people created the solution.

Way back when I signed up for machine shop and automotive repair shop, both were VO Tech type courses and the number of students applying were more than the class could handle so it was necessary to sign up for more than one. Well in my Senior year the powers that be switched from VO Tech to Industrial Arts, as I recall a one hour class. On top of that just prior to the start of the school year they tore up the machine shop and we did nothing but paper work until after January! At least that is how I remember it.

we here in allegany co maryland are fortunate. the vo tech has a 20 bay autobody shop with two paint booths. the mechanical shop has a dozen or so lifts and the latest hand/power tools. graduates of the mechanical course start at 60K/yr if they elect to stay up here in the mountains and command 100k/yr if they elect to go to wash dc or baltimore. it ain't bad everywhere. regards, mike

"So, regarding all this 'stupidity' in the schools and curriculum and so on: who is it that's really responsible for leading us down the garden path?? In these days of specialization it sure seems odd to be 'canceling' all these 'tech' classes / courses!?!?!?!?!"

I don't know about in other areas, but locally the decisions regarding curriculum are made by the school district superintendent (he draws down $110,000 per year by the way) and the school board. Now, the interesting part about this whole scenario is that our local school district's budget is around $40 million per year.....and those people on the school board that make the decisions are dudes and dudettes off of the street....with no experience in education whatsoever! No qualifications are required, or experience either, to run for the school board....all ya gotta do is run and get elected! I know of no other multi-million dollar corporation that would take an unemployed welder (who is our present school board chairman) and make him CEO of the company with absolutely no experience or background.

The present school board is a disaster, and collectively they have taken the school district back to the dark ages with their decisions. Certain curriculum has been dropped, the staff moral is non-existent, and 35 teachers have been laid off in the district in the past two years because of the lack of concern for education by the school board. All of the school board members are there either for their egos or to run power plays......or both, and education suffers because of it! After the 35 teachers were laid off, the school board gave fantastic raises to the administrators (as high as 13%, plus another 4% the following year), and no raises to the existing staff, and their comment was..."we gave the high raises to the administrators because we don't want to lose any administrators in this school district!" That's after 35 teachers were laid off! And, some of those teachers were teaching shop classes! :( :(

I have fought for 35 years the 'powers that be' about the wrong headed attitude of our local district

The attitude is that 'everyone in HS will go to college (load of #&%$) and that is all we train them to do (curriculum is set by state and district).

Every school district in this country SHOULD be required to have Comprehensive VO-TECH HIGH SCHOOLS EQUAL IN QUALITY TO THE ACADEMIC HIGH SCHOOLS in their district.

I still fight the battle every chance I get but am getting tired of butting my head against a brick wall…maybe this explains why I can not find a person to work on my car or paint my house or repair woodwork or do any skilled work…craftsmen are a dying breed in all areas.

P.S. our local school superintendent is paid more than the governor of the state….teachers here are among the lowest paid in the state…I guess they like to be wrong headed about everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek:

...and they aren't a bit bashful when they ask for a 500 million dollar bond issue to build a You-know-what? (another Admistration building with gold plated potties!) ...and they tell you...IT IS ALL FOR OUR KIDS!
Malarkie! :p :rolleyes: :arrow:

And, along with my posting above, I failed to mention that our local school district has the highest property tax rate in the state, and the vast majority of our property taxes goes to support our local school district. High taxes and overpaid administrators = poor education. What do you see wrong with that picture?

As an employee of the Board here in my town I have seen it many times, that is that the noisy wheel gets oiled. If you guys don't like whats going on DO SOMETHING about it. I have seen it. They will listen.

Some of us really need to let the Board of Ed's in our town know that not everyone needs to be a Doctor or Lawyer. We need to let them know that tradesmen are badly needed in this country and because we don't have them we will pay a lot more for service in the future and this country will become even more dependant on foreign goods and services.

When the powers that be got into the act of training our kids for the future we made sure we had all the training spaces and equipment in place. Well, I think that's were we ought to start. We should stop dismantling the shops and getting rid of the teachers we have. We should actively try and find replacements for teachers that retire so we can still teach those courses. Most administrators wait for retirements to reduce staff. Do away with State mandated cirtification to teach those skills and I bet you'll find lot's of guys and girls to teach them. (my H.S. had a hair styling shop) You don't need a collage degree to teach carpentry!

Anyway, if we make the noise those bored housewives that got elected to the Board of Education might listen. After all, it is your tax money that supports the whole thing.

"If you guys don't like what's going on DO SOMETHING about it. I have seen it. They will listen."

That way of thinking just doesn't quite work around here. The monthly school board meetings are packed with concerned tax payers and they express their views......the board doesn't listen. And, when the high raises were given to all of the administrators (as stated in the above posting) after the school board claimed the district was running out of money, everyone, and I mean everyone protested and the community was in an uproar...especially since the school board laid off 35 teachers due to the "lack of funding"! Even the Medford Mail Tribune had an editorial bashing the school board chairman and the rest of the board for their improper and untimely decision on raises for the administration given the fact that they (the school board) claimed that the district was almost out of funds and that they laid of teachers in the process. The school board still didn't listen and they gave the raises anyway!

If complaints fall on deaf ears, it doesn't matter how much you talk because those in power just ain't a gonna listen anyway. They are way too preoccupied with their egos to listen!

Reading what you all have to say, and the fact that we are in two different countries, miles apart with the same issues. I wonder if they have the same issues in say South America? Oh wait there luckey to get an education. My wife has taught school for 35 years and can't wait to leave her beloved profession. Why because they took her library job and gave it to a tech with no idea how to run a library in a school. But they saved a lot of money. Well we will all keep bitching and they will keep cutting and the administration will keep build their ivory towers. Life goes on. Thanks for this string.

On another note, what is it with today's "go to college and become a brain surgeon or fail in life" attitude? They are taking away all the shop classes and replacing them with qoute "more important" classes. What is going to happen in 10 years when nobody can make or fix anything? There is going to be significantly less people that know how to fix cars, build furniture, or anything else requiring you to use your hands.