VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Which one???

I need a nice, good, dependable welder for my shop. I would like for it to be 120v and be able to do welding on steel and aluminum.

I don't know TIG, MIG, stick or ? What would you guy recommend?

I don't believe there are any good 120V welders.

Lincoln makes a 120V AC wire feed welder that can also be setup as a Mig welder, They are a good welder for most automobile (I have one that I use for mig and wire core.) think the tot al cost was around$350 for the welder and $60 for the mig conversion, which does not include the gas cylinder. I only use it up 1/4" Thick and then I would go to a larger welder like a stick which requires 220-240 Volts, Hobart and Miller also probably have a small wire core welder thatmay fit your bill, also Harbor Freight has one of their own brands of imported wire core welders at a discount price, I haven't used one of the Harbor Freight models.

get a brand name mig and you'll soon discover its the best thing since caned beer. I've used mine so much in last 25 yrs that i wore out the first snap-on and am on my second. the one i have now is capable of welding up to 3/8 plate for short periods of time and will weld 20 guage all day long without interuption. i've tried the wire with built in flux and flux-less which requires an argon/co2 gas to "purify" the area to be welded, i much prefer naked wire and argon mix. Miller and Lincoln and Snap-on good products. can't speak for the imports common to harbor freight type mail-order outfits.Good luck, mike

I agree with Mike you will be better off with a brand name machine. They have a better duty cycle, and service parts can be ordered. A "Tweco"gun is a must and spare nozzles also. I also like the Ar/CO2 combo shielding gas. As far as the aluminum goes, that is something that takes time and is a different set up altogether. The MIG welders that I have used for aluminum are 3 phase 110/208 units and hold one pound spools of wire in the gun, They are set up for heavy duty industrial type of work. Aluminum takes a lot of time(years)to master and is not forgiving at all when a mistake is made. It is also rather expensive to set up for. I am certified as an outside vendor to weld aluminum for Con Edison and don't even have a set-up at home for it, there is just no use for it.
A quote to remember about welding;
"Welding machines are like a musical instruments, no matter the price of the it, it is only as good as the artist behind it. A great welder or musician can do anything with a cheap tool, but the person with no knowledge can't carry a time with the best of everything in his hands"
Good luck,
John
PS get an automatic dimming shield it will make things easier if you are just starting out

gator,

I agree with these guys...I've been using millers & lincolns for thirty years and haven't a thing to complain about...stick with the name brands and you won't go wrong...


epi

This is exactly the information I had hoped for, thanks guys. I have copied and saved your advise.

So MIG is the way to go for general shop needs, right?

Anything special I should know about the shield? I like the idea of an automatic dimmer. I have used stick before with a regular shield and it was difficult to see where to start.

How do I know where to set the shield darkness? Do you trust the auto dimmers? Would hate to burn my eyes. ouch...

Any vendors out there that offer good deals on name brand welding stuff?

I have seen some Lincoln machines at the local Sam's Club and wondered if it was a good machine. Any specific models to look for?

Gator: have had a dimming helmet for 15 years and can still see where i'm going. my dimmer is not adjustable, its all or none. Battery needs replaced yearly, lense covers cleaned periodicaly.I suspect your pocketbook will dictate which Lincoln at Sam's club will end up in your shop. mike

Mike, is there a warning light about the battery going dead?

Ran across this while doing some web research on welding:

http://home8.inet.tele.dk/jan_p/welder/mig2.htm


What kind of 'grade' (A to F) would you give this idea?

or

http://www.5bears.com/welder.htm

or

http://www.dansworkshop.com/Homebuilt%20arc%20welder.shtml

Is it really practical to build your own? Don't think I have the nerve...

What do you think of "REFURBISHED" by the factory (Lincoln) machines?


I assume that when they say "gasless" you must used some sort of coated wire. (?) Is this a hassel or using gas a hassel?

Sorry about all of the questions but I am starting out knowing nothing.

When you say buy a brand name, are there other good brands other than, Miller, Lincoln, Snap-on? I see a lot of machines with names, some names I have seen on other stuff like 'Century' on battery chargers but I don't know if their welder is any good.

Anybody heard of "Campbell Hausfeld "?

Yes, I have bought several factory 'refurbished tools, (not welders) it is kinda' like rolling the dice.

Gasless wire is called flux core wire, the flux is inside the wire core ,just opposite of stick electrode rods, no hassle, it just leaves a slag because of the flux, MiG ,to me leaves a more perfect bead (really good for welding patch panels and repairing rips etc.), but MiG requires a still place to weld because wind will blow away the sheilding bubble of Ar and Co2, and you can buy the gas in a custom blend for what you are welding,( XX% Argon and YY% Co2)Iron, steel, Stainless steel, aluminum etc.) Argon is more expensive than Co2 but Co2 doesn't provide the same amount of inert area as Argon. John haven't used a Tweco gun but I will surely want to check one out, anything that helps my welding is a step forward, like the self darkening hood. I bought an elcheapo from Harbor Freight for $64 and I really like it so far, a little flimsy but it functions well (solar powered) I just am more careful where I lay it down, I have stepped on a hood before!

Yes, there are other name brands, I stick with Hobart, Lincoln, and Miller, I am sure one of the major welding manf. companys contract to Snap-on and Mac tools. Many mechanics are Snap-on oreinted because they sell to mechanics with direct to the shop marketing and have a good installment purchase plan so does Mac tools. I bought my Lincoln unit from Lowe's for a lot less than TIP's sell the same unit for. I have seen the Hobart units in several catalogs.Hemmings usually has a wide choice of vendors for welders suited for automobile use.

yes, I have heard of Campbell Hausfield, I haven't used anything except their air driven tools, low to medium price range.

Good Luck! This is probably MORE than you really wanted to know, But...Oh Well!.....

gator: when the helmet battery goes dead, the filter is blocking extraneous light at all times whether you're welding or not( just like it does when the welder arc is generating the cornea-damaging rays.)hence, when battery is dead, the helmet functions just like the old fashioned helmets. the battery simply allows the filter to be diabled right up until the arc is established. mike

I just used one of these automatic helmets last year for the first time, I loved it! I went out and bought one that week. I would not go too cheap with one of these, the price is in the dimming time the quicker the dimming action the more the price. How much are you planning on welding? This really should dictate what you purchace. I have a cheap 110 volt unit I bought from Eastwood about 15 years ago, and it is fine for most of the "basic" shop work. I have had no problem welding with it. It is not as good as my Lincoln for certian things. The better machine will have good penetration on thicker metal. Again the average home shop does not weld anything thicker than an 1/8 inch, so...... As far as the referbished units it all depends on the warrenty. I would suggest using all week 24/7 because if it will break it will be then
John

I have lookd at 15 or twenty self darkening helments and the main difference in price within each brand is the size of the lens, The high dollar helments are more easy to adjust to head size and the comfort of the suspension most of the dimming times are not too different, average seems to be around 1/20000 of a second (.00005 seconds) Also entering into price is the graphics painted on the helment. I like a light weight helment and only have to adjust to the welding cap I may be wearing or to a new haircut!and have no use for death masks, eagles, etc. on a welding helment.

Gator,
If you intend to buy a machine that is easier to use and produces a better job, look at the 220V units. They produce a much more even bead and are much better than the 110V ones particularly if you have voltage drift at the shop. If you don't mind a rougher bead and more grinding and rewelding then the 110s are ok. Some 110v units will hardly work if the voltage drops more than a few volts. Varying voltage really makes a nice weld difficult.

Make sure to get one that is set up for gas. You can always use either solid wire with gas or flux core. Flux core will work in a breeze.

Stick with a name brand like Hobart, Miller, Lincoln. I understand that even some of the less expensive name brand units are imported. A hobby shop does not need a high duty cycle machine.

I just looked at these helmets last weekend at the Portland Swap Meet (Oregon). There were two helmets that were the most common. The plastic helmet components were virtually identical. The difference was all in the lens.

The lens (per the salesman) are primarily made in either China or Germany. Guess which one is better? German, naturally. There was about $40 difference with the Chinese helmet coming in at $129 and the other one at $169.

I don't know what "really" is the difference between the lens mechanisms, but it did make me a little nervous thinking about a Chinese-made auto-darkening circuit protecting my eyesight.

Don't know how to resolve this. Maybe an old-car magazine will do a comparison test.

Great information!

Good to know that if an auto helmet battery goes dead the lenses gets dark, wonder if this is true for a malfunction like Bill mentioned.

Most machines talk about the thickness that can be welded, what would be a 'normal' welding thickness on a car?

I only have 220 in my shop, had hoped to be able to weld in other places that is why I was asking about the 110v models. But with what Chip said I think maybe I should haul anything needing welding to the shop and use a 220v machine. I don't want to have to do extra sanding and grinding. Did not know that the quality of the weld was based on the volts, when you think about it, it does make sense.

I will forget about getting one that is only gasless also.

Think I will buy German made instead of Chinese made lenses.

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP. Gator

Voltage has not much to do with welding, it takes amps to get a deep penetrating weld, most shop welders are around 35 to 45 volts output and from 70 to 300 amps,Crakerbox AC welders ( transformers with from 60 to 200 Amp output) wire feed welders Mig and wire core produce good welds from a 110 volt machine if I could only have one welder I would go with the Lincoln or Miller 110V wire feed. I know a fellow that welds out on his ranch with 6, 6 volt tractor batterys in series and a ground cable on the negative and an Stick electrode holder on the positive.

The main thing you need is to Know how to weld! Take a course at your community college's tech school.

Mr. Mack, the voltage is the "pressure" that pushes the amps, so it plays a pretty large roll in the whole operation. The higher the voltage the less amperage is needed to do the same job. I like you prefer my 110 unit it just seems to handle most of my hobby work, and I like the portabilty. I found a heavy duty 10 AWG extension cord work the best.

As Chip pointed out voltage drop will really cause a lot of problems with the 110 unit. I think some of the lesser brands are made by the big names and retagged, so you can luck out. Try to find a friend that has one and try playing with his set-up with some instruction. But always remember it is a trade that takes time to master. With a MIG if it sounds like chicken frying then the weld is most likely good.
John

Yes your point of connection to the supply is critical, the manf. usually states not to use an extension cord. I always wired shop outlets with no less than 12 ga copper up to a distance of 35' from breaker and 10 gauge for up to 70' for 110-120 VAC I check my power every couple of months and unless there is a transformer going bad here I usually have 118 to 121 VAC, we are on a Coop System. most of the reason you need a higher voltage is a transmission line problem, at the point of the weld 36 volts is plenty as long as you can get a constant 100 to 300 amps,you can burn as much rod as you can carry, Jyd has the right idea use large fine stranded copper wire 0000 GA. for the electrode leads.

I'm sure the gov't requires this information about volts and amps to be on the machine somewhere. So one of the things I would look for would be:

"...most shop welders are around 35 to 45 volts output and from 70 to 300 amps..." The higher the better.

Right?

Thanks, Gator

Gator, the voltage output isn't always part of the spec. plates. but the output amps is, and yes the higher the amps the thicker the metel that can usually be welded through and through. The main reason that lower voltage is used? Think about it. If you were to get the needed wattage to supply the heat would you rather have a electrode holder in your hand with 200Vac and 40 amps output or 40 Volts and 200 amps, with regards to the electrocution hazard? Welding with 40 volts does cause some tingleing when your body gets into the circuit in parallel with the work end and the ground end when it is raining or the ground is wet, but a 200 volt output with 40 amps would fry you quickly. The low voltage high amperage is less of an electrocution hazard.

We are supplied by one of the largest electrical transmission companies in the US and the voltage varies to as low as 112 volts. It really screws up the computer, welder, etc when voltage gets in the 115 range or lower. A neighbor worked for the electic company. He responded to a my call for low voltage and when we checked it it was 114.7 volts. Was going to put a voltage recorder on the line but instead went to his house to check voltage there saying that he would let me know if his was ok. Never heard from him but the voltage has been much better since. I can tell when the voltage gets low because one of the ceiling fans begins to make a strange noise.

A couple+ of really dumb questions:

1. What is VAC? I assume it is the voltage at the plug.

When you speak of the volts of the machine; 35-45 is the number for "volts output".

2. What is a "Tweco" gun?

3. What size nozzels should I have?

4. What type of wire should I use?

Thanks again.

gator,

vac is "volts ac"...the "35-45" volts referred to are output...a tweco gun is a brand of combination wire feed & gas nozzle control tip (the "electrode holder" end of things)...also, there are crook neck guns to get in and around obstacles...the nozzle & wire are determined by what you plan to weld...


epi