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Ok,
Donald here it is. It only took 8 hours of research so far.

Starting Cranks for four cylinder and early six-cylinder era Chevrolets.

The following is preliminary and to be considered a draft document. It is based on research of original Chevrolet and General Motors literature by the author. It is not extensive as all available literature has not been searched and other references have not been sought. Comments, corrections or other assistance to make this more accurate is welcomed.

The earliest Chevrolets used a multi-piece starting crank assembly. They consisted of a shaft and a lever/handle combination attached 90 degrees to the shaft. At least four different starting cranks of this type were used as four part numbers were found. Additional research is required to better understand these assemblies.

By 1920 a starting crank, part number 43419 was available. It is illustrated in several parts books as a rod type with two greater than 90-degree bends (estimated to be approximately 105 degrees). One end has a pin through the end that fits slots in the engine crank pulley and a rotatable sleeve on the other end.

Part number 344442 is listed in a General Motors Products of Canada, Ltd., Oshawa, Ontario parts list for Superior, Series “K”. Nothing else is known of this starting crank.

Part number 43419 is listed in two parts books published by General Motors (Aust.) Pty., Ltd. as correct for Capital Series AA passenger and commercial and LM truck models. U.S. published books effective January 1, 1927 and later list part number 334271 for the same models. (The number change is thought to be due to the transition from a five to a six-digit part numbering system and not an actual difference in the part.)

The February 1, 1928 Master Parts Price List, lists 334271 for F,FA,FB,T,G,490,Sup.,U,C (1916-1927) and ) part number 352768 for the National (Series AB). The January 1, 1929 and later Four Cylinder parts books list the later number for all of these models.

The 1929-30 Chevrolet six-cylinder passenger cars (AC, AD) required a longer starting crank to reach through the front apron. It is part number 355441. Commercial ½ ton (AC, AD) and 1½ ton vehicles (LQ,LR,LS) used part number 352768. The same part number (352768) is listed in all parts books checked (1931-1945) for AE, B, CB, LT, M, N, O series (1931-2 passenger, ½ ton, 1½ ton and 1933 Commercial ( ½ ton, 1½ ton).

The Master Parts Price List, For Six Cylinder Models, 1929-1942, effective April 2, 1945 (an excellent book to own) has the following listings.
Year Model Part Part List
Name Number Price
1929-30 PASS plain end (21 7/8 overall) 355441 .75
1929-33 ALL (exc. CA, CC-1/2 ton on AC, AD) plain end (18 1/2 overall) 352768 .75
1933 CA ¾ in. socket end (18 overall) 370853 .75
1933 CC ¾ in. socket end (16 1/8 overall) 473818 .75
1934-35 DA,DC,EC ¾ in. socket end (22 1/2 overall) 374491 .75
1934-36 DB,EB,FB ¾ in. socket end (20 1/2 overall) 373413 .75
1934-36 P,Q,R 7/8 in. socket end (27 1/2 overall) 373557 .75
1935-36 EA,ED,FA,FC,FD ¾ in. socket end (21 1/2 overall) 475564 .75
1937-42 ALL (exc. JA,JB,KA,KB,KH) plain end (33 1/8 overall) 3661378 .75
1939-40 JA,JB,KA,KB,KH plain end (31 5/8 overall) 350689 .75

This is the only piece of Chevrolet literature found that gives the dimensions for the starting cranks. It also lists the type of handle end.

The author is aware (has a copy compliments of Ray Lemasters) of a “General Sales Department, Service Division” three page letter type document entitled “1932 CHEVROLET SERIES “BA” PASSENGER CAR S.U.P. SPECIFICATIONS” that contradicts some of the above information. The document has a “Issued:- November 13, 1931.” at the bottom of each page. Apparently the document is intended for export vehicles as it lists “2 Passenger Sport Roadster (With Dickey Seat)”, “2 Passenger Sport Coupe … Five Windows (With Dickey Seat)” and “2 Passenger Standard Cabriolet (With Dickey Seat)”. “The Dickey Seat is located in rear deck and accommodates two additional passengers.” Among the tools listed at the end of the document is “Combination Starting Crank and Wheel Nut Wrench”.

Beginning with the August 1, 1929 and continuing through the previously referenced 1945 edition of the 29-42 Master Parts book is the following listing: Wrench, Wire Wheel Hub and Rim Bolt Nut part number 348905. The application listed is 1929-33.

My understanding is that the tools were not actually placed into the tool compartment on the production line but were installed by the dealers. Evidence for that is the 1930 filmstrip “Check and Double Check” and the 1931 filmstrip “Double Check”. If Chevrolet supplied starting cranks to dealers with the lug nut socket on the end why did they continue to list, apparently purchase and supply starting cranks without the socket ends up to at least 1945? Why would they also list and supply the separate Wire Wheel Hub nut wrench.? Why would they continue to list the 1933 Master starting crank with the lug nut socket for only that model? To date the preponderance of evidence from Chevrolet and General Motors literature supports 1933 Master as the first starting crank with the socket end.

Let the vegetables or fruits (tomatoes) fly!!!

Glad to see that all that info is compatable with the tools in my original 33 Eagle. Too late after all these years to go hunt up something to make it correct. No socket end on mine.

Hey Chipper Dipper: Great job on the research! You did a lot of work on this issue, and it probably cut deeply into your bugle playing time as well. At any rate, we now have in detail everything there is to know about starting cranks up through 1940. That is great information to use as reference for the history of Chevrolet starting cranks. If we go by original Chevrolet literature (which I have always totally supported as the basis for all Chevrolet research) then it does, in fact, appear that the first year for a starting crank with the socket on the end was indeed 1933. Now, the mystery arises as to where the few totally all original 1932 Chevrolets that are still floating around got their hand cranks with the socket end? Again, thanks for taking the time to do the research, and I think that it should now solve the question and the problem. This information also needs to find it's way into the judging handbook if it isn't already there.

By the way, do you have any theories as to why the 1932 export models would have a starting crank with the socket end and the domestic models did not?

Now, does anyone have a 1932 (1933) socket end starting crank that they want to trade to Raymondo for his 1933 (1932) starting crank with the plain end? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Yes.

Well Chipper and JYD, also Ray and Donald, It don't look like someone was right and everyone was wrong, Some dealers and customers decided they needed a better tool so they got the socket end model for their two year old cars,
My Dad put great store on having a good crank , and a good lugwrench and jack, Even when he bought his last new pick up in 1959, the one before that was a 48, he raized Cain because they no longer had a hand crank and a screw jack, and even went to another dealer to see if he was being lied to. He found that the screw jack was an accessory and made them give him one at no cost. He then went to Western Auto and bought a 4 way lug wrench (which I still have, it has a screwdriver end to pull hubcaps and 3 socket ends.)

I think someone is mis-reading my post. My car is an EAGLE and the non-socket crank is correct and that is what is in the original set of tools.

(EAGLE: Manufactured in the first three months of '33) (MASTER: Manufactured after the first three months).

So, now we know the rest of the story, the changeover from sleeve to socket maybe was ,and maybe wasn't, in middle 1933?

Leave it to Raymondo to add to the controversy after we thought that the problem was solved! ha ha!

JYD someone needs to make sense out of this mess You and I haven't been able to!

WELL WELL, LET THE TOMATERS FLY, BECAUSE I THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS SAID??? RAY HAS A ORIGINAL TOOL KIT WITH NO SOCKET ON ONE END? I WOULD BET THAT THERE WAS MANY STARTING CRANKS THAT WAS PUT INTO THE 33 TOOL KITS TO GET RID OF THEM AND SO ALOT OF 33 CHEVYS HAD THEM AND ALOT OF 33 CHEVYS HAD THE SOCKET ON ONE END. ALSO I WOULD BET THAT ALOT OF 1932 CHEVYS THAT WERE NOT EXPORTED ALSO HAD THE TOOL KITS WITH THE SOCKET ON ONE END. I CAN NOT SEE HOW EITHER ONE WOULD BE WRONG, BECAUSE IF A SOCKET END STARTING CRANK WAS PUT INTO A NON EXPORT CAR, THEN THAT WOULD BE CORRECT BECAUSE THAT IS HOW IT WAS DELIVERED TO THE CUSTOMER. LET THE TOMATERS FLY, BUT WATCH OUT FOR THE FRUIT FLYS. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Well.....I thought that I did make sense of it.......that is until Raymondo threw another "Monkey Wrench" (read that.....starting crank) into the pot! ha ha! :eek:

Yea, so did I, Donald are you adding some more confusion to the issue? Just because your Model "T" buddies sold you a wore out Model "T" crank for four figures, don't make it right....

YEP MR MACK, ALL THESE 32 ORIGINAL CHEVYS WITH THE SOCKET ON ONE END OF THE STARTING CRANK, I HARDLY THINK THE GUYS WENT OUT AND THREW THE NON SOCKET CRANKS AWAY AND THEN BOUGHT THE ONES WITH THE SOCKET ON THEM. WHO KIDDING WHO?????????????????LET THE TOMATERS FLY.

Raymondo's car has the plain end starting crank because, according to original Chevrolet literature, the early Eagle models did use the starting crank with the plain end. Also, on the starting crank for 1932, we have to go by what the original Chevrolet literature says, not by rumor or what "came in the car when you bought it". Sure....Chevrolet deviated a lot from what they state in their own literature, but that is conjecture at this point, and 70 years down the road we have to use original Chevrolet documentation about what is correct and what is not correct, (especially for judging) even if Chevrolet chose to do differently on their own. If the literature states that the plain starting crank was used in 1932, then when your car is judged you should have a plain starting crank or points will be deducted accordingly........no matter how many '32's around the country have the crank with the socket end. However, if some documentation were to show up indicating that either starting crank was used in 1932, then that would change the issue.

ALL SAID AND WELL, BUT IM NOT BUYING IT. THATS MY OPINION AND I STILL THINK THE 32 CRANK WAS SOLD IN MANY MANY CARS WITH THE SOCKET ON ONE END. AS OF NOW I DO NOT KNOW ONE PERSON WHO HAS A PLAIN STARTING CRANK IN THEIR 32 TOOL KIT. REMEMBER THIS IS MY OPINION. NOW LET THE TOMATERS FLY AND THE BUGLE START PLAYING.

Opinions are cool, and your opinion might, in fact, be totally correct. But, the bottom line is.....you have to use documented facts when restoring a car for judging, not opinions. Look how many '32 Chevys have yellow spark plug wires with the orange tracers. Just because hundreds of them have these spark plug wires doesn't make them right, especially since the documentation says that the spark plug wires should be black lacquered wire instead. Donald, you have been so adamant about everything on your '32 being absolutely correct and by the book....and your car reflects it because of your diligence. The starting crank is no different. If you are going to have your car judged then you have to go by the book on that as well....regardless of what your opinion might be or my opinion might be. We are talking about history here. Even though there are zillions of '32's around with the socket end crank (and I have seen dozens of them myself), that doesn't necessarily make it right.....just like the spark plug wires. We have to use documentation to determine right from wrong when it comes to restoring these cars, especially if they are going to be judged. But.......who knows....maybe down the road some documentation might show up supporting your theory.

I WOULD THINK THAT PINKY RANDALL COULD GIVE US SOME MORE INFORMATION AND DOCUMENTATION TO THIS DISCUSSION.

Maybe.......maybe not. It all depends upon what kind of documentation he has on the 1932 starting crank. :confused: :confused:

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, PINKY IS KNOW AS MR CHEVROLET AND HE HAS A GREAT WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE WHEN IT COMES TO CHEVROLET. YEP

You are absolutely correct, but we still need documentation.

I REALLY FIND IT QUITE AMAZING ABOUT JUDGING. I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAD THE TOOLS OUT FOR DISPLAY WHEN MY CAR WAS JUDGED AND NO ONE EVEN LOOKED AT THEM, LET ALONE NO ONE ELSE EVEN SHOWED THEIR TOOLS???? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Is it possible that the '32's with Dickey seats (rumble seats) for export were equipped with the cranks with the sockets because they were going to countrys that used the metric system and the correct 3/4 size wasn't available???????for removing the wheels.(yes I know 19mm is the same)>>>>>>Also I went and tried to get my nuts off with the crank for my '34 and they wouldn't budge...not enough leverage.So how can I get my nuts off with this thing?????

Chev Nut: I'm not even going to go there because it could turn into an Elvira thing.....big time!!! Ha ha! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Donald! That's part of the problem with the VCCA judging........every one does it differently and that is another reason why fewer and fewer cars are being judged at the Northwest Meets. At any rate, there are '32 Chevys out there with the plain type of starting crank. It would be interesting to see what the judges would do if there were two '32 Chevys competing with each other in class and one had the plain crank and the other had the socket crank. :confused: :confused: :confused:

I REALLY REALLY DO THINK THAT THIS STARTING CRANK SUBJECT ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG NEEDS TO GO ALOT FARTHER IN DOCUMENTATION AND TALK WITH ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE MORE INPUT TO PUT INTO THIS SUBJECT. I THOUGHT THE BADGER PISTON SUBJECT WAS GETTING QUITE INVOLVED, BUT IT DOES NOT HOLD A CANDLE TO THE STARTING CRANK EPISODE? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

How would the average judge know which is correct?Here we have some of the most knowledgeable VCCA people and there are two opinions. Thats why judging isn't a perfect science.

You are correct Chevy Nut, and that's why documentation is so important. A lot of judges go by comparison judging or by their opinions instead of by documentation. We may not agree with certain aspects of the documentation, just like on the starting crank issue, but it's there in black and white and it was put there by Chevrolet Motor Division. That is the Bible to go by. Just like the cowl tag information......that is documentation about the car from the factory, but yet it gets totally ignored at most VCCA judged meets. Bottom line......we have to use the available documentation (facts) for judging purposes and leave the opinions out of it. That way the judging will be more fair to all.

CHEVGENE I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. IF I WAS TO JUDGE A CAR I WAS NOT TO FAMALIAR WITH, AND THE TOOLS WERE IN THE TRUNK AND I LOOKED AT THEM.HOW WOULD I OR SOMEONE ELSE JUDGING CARS KNOW IT THEY WERE RIGHT????? ENEN IF I WENT THROUGH THE JUDGING SCHOOL I WOULD NOT KNOW. JUST BECAUSE THE TOOLS ARE THERE, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE RIGHT. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Donald: That's why the VCCA has judging handbooks for each individual year. These manuals are supposed to list what's correct for each year, including the tools, and they are to be used by the judges. Again....documentation, no guessing or opinions.

JUNKYARD DOG, I SEEN NO MANUALS AT THE JUDGING. WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AND WHAT IS DONE IS A DIFFERENT STORY. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Now you've got the picture! I believe that there are supposed to be judging manuals in use now. I had to make one for 1930 and 1932 and it took me weeks to do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

YES YES, AND YOU PUT WHAT DOWN FOR THE 32 STARTING CRANK????????

Get your car judged again and see!

Well, misters smarty pants, I have one of the new $5 judgeing manuals and it don't say whether the 32 or any other cranking tool had either a sleeve or a socket on the end, but , It is the owners responsibility to provide any documentation for an item that is controversal on your car!

Hey,
Now simmer down guys. Put down the mate'rs. Got red blotches all over me.

I wonder if Ramondo has the lug nut wrench in his tool kit? The wrench should be there if the starting crank does not have a socket end. Look in your G&D back issues for a photo of what could be one. How else would you get the flat tire changed with the jack that will not fit under the axle? Gene, I don't think it would be easier to get the lug nuts off with the speeder type wrench than the end socket of a starting crank.

Yes, the correct jack will not fit under the axle of a 1930-33 when the tire is flat. They didn't fix that until later in 1933. Anyone what to go there?

Back to the starting cranks. Remember that I am of the opinion that dealers put the tool kits into the cars. I don't have specific documentation for this yet other than the film strips. I put a picture of a wire wheel lug nut wrench in the Jan. '02 G&D in case you missed it.

Like Donald I had thought for years that the crank with the socket end was correct for the '32s and likely the '31s also. Until I did some research that is. When I finally looked close enough at the "Check and Double Check" film strip, recognized what must have been part of the wrench, found the listing in many parts books and finally got the '45 edition of the 29-42 parts book that clearly showed "plain end", that I realized that I was likely wrong. Now I think that I was mistaken.

Since none of us has followed the exact history of any of these old Chevrolets and if we had our memories have faided over the years, we can not be sure if the starting cranks we find in the cars were originally put there or traded out later. I would rather try to remove the lug nuts with the crank end socket than the speed wrench type. I likely would have opted to trade if given the chance.

Ok, got my fruit basket refilled, mate'ers, rotten mellons, squash. Bob & Weave or Duck! or be covered with multicolored blotches.

If this one strays off the subject the MODERATOR has instructed me to put a cap on it.

Cool! Hum..........who is the Moderator anyway??? :confused: :confused:

Chipper Dipper: I used to think the same as you about the starting crank with the socket end since there are so many 1931's and 1932's out there with that type of starting crank as part of their tool kit. However, I have found that most of the owners of these cars did add the starting cranks to their tool kits later. There are a couple of all original '32's that I have seen that did have the starting crank with the socket end. But.......while I haven't done the exhaustive research on this issue that you have, I did do a little checking into the subject and I found that the original Chevrolet literature does document that the starting cranks for the 1931 and 1932, and 1933 Eagle domestic models did have the plain end. So.......until some other original literature does show up to contradict that fact, we will have to go with what has been documented so far.

I'll pull it back in, Ray.

I had mentioned on a previous posting I seem to have been blessed with both kinds of cranks inside my '32 trunk. I also have a lug wrench with a socket on one end and a point on the other (presumably to pry off hubcaps). If I momentarily skirt the controversy, is this third wrench a proper tool for the year, or likely an aftermarket acquisition?

YIPES, I CAN NOT GO WHERE YOW GUYS COME UP WITH THE STARTING CRANK HAVING NO SOCKET ON ONE END. I WOULD NOT TAKE THE BOOKS PRINTED IN 1945 OR THE PARTS BOOKS 29 TO 42 AS BEING CORRECT OR BEING PROOF. THE PEOPLE WHO OWN ORIGINAL 32 CHEVYS AND HAVE THE STARTING CRANKS WITH A SOCKET IN ONE END, DIDNT JUST GO OUT AND BUY A STARTING CRANK WITH NO SOCKET. NO, BECAUSE THE CRANKS THEY HAVE WITH THE SOCKET IN ONE END, IS WHAT CAME WITH THE CAR. AS OF THIS TIME THERE IS STILL NOT A 100 PROOF THAT THERE WAS A STARTING CRANK WITH NO SOCKET ON ONE END IN 1932 :) :)

Donald....... Yes, a lot of '32 Chevys have the starting crank with the socket ends and that's true. I've seen many myself. BUT, for restoration purposes, and especially for judging purposes, you can only go by actual, documented facts as a tool for restoration and/or judging. Opinions, rumors and guess work doesn't count. Opinions and rumors are great to talk about, but you cannot use that for an accurate and authentic restoration of a car, or for judging. Even though the starting crank with the socket end may possibly be correct, without documentation you cannot prove that it is correct unfortunately, no matter how many cars you find with them 70 years down the road. And to say the parts books are incorrect is guess work (because no one knows) and it is only conjecture. :( :( :(

HEY CHIPPER DIPPER, WHAT MONTH AND YEAR DID YOU DO THE ARTICLE ON THE LUG NUT WRENCH IN THE G AND D. THANKS :) :) :) :)

Donald,
This thread could go on forever, we haven't heard from Congress, or Fox news, or Parliment, or the Dali Lamma, or Charlton Heston or Whoopy Goldberg, and there is a big old Chinese Army that might want to say something about YOUR DANGED OLD 33 CRANK WITH THE SOCKET END that is poseing as a 1932 Chevrolet Cranking tool w/ socket end...................
SO What's next?.........

Did you have to ask him that???? Gee!!!!!!!!!

Wadda mean..........why not? Haven't you noticed what we have all been through the past couple of days because someone else asked old Donald a question?? Holy Cow!!!!!!!

Oh! That, Well slap my face and call me forgiven!