VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 '31 Roadster Story

Ha!Ha! Yeah, Bill that is what I meant! (or something like that)!

MY 2 CENTS WORTH:
THERE SHOULD BE SOME ADVANTAGES TO BEING A MEMBER OF A CLUB. IF THAT IS ACCESS TO A SITE THAT NON-MEMBERS CAN'T ACCESS, OK, THAT IS FINE. EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU SURPORT A GROUP WITH MONEY YOU HAVE A GREATER RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT GROUP THEN SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T SURPORT WITH MONEY. ALL OF US (MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS) LOVE CHEVYS, BUT IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE AND KEEP INFORMATION ON CHEVYS ALIVE AND AVAILABLE, IT COST MONEY AND TIME. THAT IS JUST A FACT OF LIFE.
USING THE TIME AND WORK OF OTHERS WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING SOMETHING JUST DOESN'T SIT RIGHT WITH ME, THAT IS WHY I JOINED AGAIN. ALL I DO IS PAY SOME DUES, OTHERS SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF TIME, ENERGY AND KNOWLEDGE IN ADDITION TO THE DUES TO KEEP THIS CLUB ALIVE AND WORKING. IF WE WANT TO KEEP A CLUB AND IF WE WANT TO KEEP OUR CHEVYS WORKING WE SHOULD SURPORT THE CLUB (AND IT DOES TAKE MONEY, TOO).
I USED TO BE PRESIDENT OF A LOCAL AACA AND A MEMBER OF SEVERAL OTHER CLUBS AND I FOUND OUT THAT THERE ARE 2 TYPES OF PEOPLE IN CLUBS - DOERS AND TALKERS -. OFTEN THE TALKERS WOULD CRITICIZE WHAT THE DOERS WERE TRYING TO DO WITH A MULTITUDE OF SUGGESTIONS, BUT THEY NEVER HAD THE TIME TO REPLACE THE DOERS. BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN VCCA SO FAR, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE GIVING A LOT OF THEIR TIME AND ENERGY TO THE CLUB. WE NEED TO SURPORT AND THANK THEM IN THEIR EFFORTS TO IMPROVE THE CLUB.
ONE OTHER SUGGESTION, SOME CLUBS HAVE A 2 TIER SYSTEM OF COSTS. MEMBERS PAY ONE PRICE (OR FREE), NON-MEMBERS PAY A HIGHER COST. MAYBE WE COULD DO THAT WITH SOME SERVICES, I.E. "PARTS FOR SALE, CARS FOR SALE, ETC"
IF WE WANT TO KEEP CHEVYS AND THE CLUB ALIVE AND GROWING FOR US AND OUR KIDS - WE NEED TO JOIN THE VCCA, REMEMBER IT NOT ABOUT US, IT'S ABOUT THE CHEVYS.


BILL, MAYBE YOU COULD ADD TO THE TOPIC TITLE SO OTHER CAN JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION AND KEEP IT HERE. :)

One argument put forth is that many of these materials are GM copyrighted, and should be freely accessible. A public library collects and manages thousands of copyrighted materials, and yet it is not free, but paid through your taxes. If all their materials were freely accessible, there would be no need for a library. However, no one has the time, money, or ability to possibly collect and use all these things, so we pay our share for the library to do it for our collective good. As hobbyists, we could not possibly collect and use all the technical information that has been published in the last seven decades. We depend on this club to collect, organize, and provide access to them. In the same way as a library, the work provided by the people in the organization needs to be compensated for, which in this case is merely the tangible costs. It's not a public entity, so instead of taxes, it comes in the form of member dues.

I would also raise another simple point in support of member-only access. Owning an antique car has some inherent costs, even if one has a completely original, garage-kept car. A $25 membership is a pretty friendly expense compared to the other typical costs.

Everyone is attracted to a club for different personal reasons, but most of us have a core desire to maintain and/or restore Chevrolets. Yet when I look at how hard it is to get access to the very information that is central to each member carrying out his maintenance/restoration effort, I am amazed.

25 years Bill and you still haven't accessed the wealth of information your club maintains, how sad. I wonder what you might have done different if you had been able to learn from that information. I have been a member for less than five years, and I have only had one chance to view the truckload of information and that was for less than an hour at the 40th meet.

Each meet there are shows where judges determine the authenticity of your car. Wouldn't it be marvelous if those judges had access to reliable information about each car from an easy to access database? How many controversies would be avoided if this information were finally made available to the people who pay to have it collected?

It is true that there are doers and talkers in every club. Like cabboy, I spend most of my free time trying to restore an old Chevy. I have been to a couple of local meetings and found they are mostly interested in setting up outings. If I ever get my car running, I will probably go on a couple, but I like working on my car, researching how it was made, replicating damaged parts, understanding the techniques and history of how the car was made… restoring. I joined this club to support its efforts, not to find friends or companions to drive around with. I also am disappointed with the lack of technical information in the G&D (so I supplement with a subscription to Auto Restorer). Maybe I'll put down the wrench someday and try to write a technical article, right after I figure out how to wood grain the window frames…

I have received the vast majority of the information I need from every other source but this club. I think all the information should be available to everybody but I can understand the belief that there is a certain value to this wealth of information. The main problem is, I am paying my dues and I am not getting the information I need.

Whether you make the information available to club members only, you charge a different rate to non-club members, or you make it available to everyone, make it available! Maybe if you had something to offer the “tech”, the membership might improve. The club has done a great job on the social front, lets work on the technical front.

I contribute to this club through this web site, Thank You Bill Barker For Giving Me a Voice!!!!!

Brian

Some very good points have been raised by a diverse field of forum members, and they all point to:

(1) The need for a place to catalog and classify the vast amount of Information VCCA has collected and will collect in the future and make it accessable to every member as needed without having to ship it around the country and the planet constantly incurring shipping cost, and limiting the availability to one person at a time.

(2) The need of a place where information that comes in can be placed so that it is accessable to those that classify and verify the value of the information. (Tech Advisors etc.)before it is released to the membership in general.

(3) a place where timely information as to policy, regulations and other information can be distributed to club Officers and Committee members and members working on articles and projects.

(3) A place where members can conduct business of paying dues, register for events and e-mail or upload articles and photos for the G&D.

(4) A place where the membership roster can be maintained in real time.

(5) A VCCA National B.O.D. supported Electronic Communications Committee to investigate the proper way to accomplish the first (4) points.

(6) The VCCA web site is the most practical place to have a pass worded sub-site for the secure site that will accomplish these needs. The membership roster could be used to grant access to to the parts of the secure site they require, simular to the way moderators and adminstrators have to the forums here that are restricted.

This is how I feel VCCA can be pulled, pushed or sailed into the 21st century.

Thanks for listening,

I can be reached by e-mail at mrmackc@msn.com for more personal comments, just don't throw rocks or hatchets, please!

Gotta get in here somewhere.

The vast collection of material that you are privileged to visit at the Anniversary meets is privately owned. Mostly by one individual, but supplimented by several others. (I have loaned some of my collection at some of the Anniversary meets) The only compensation the individual(s) receives is in transporting the material to the meet. All of the people assisting in the library at the meets are volunteers.

The VCCA Club library is composed of DONATED materials that are in the custody of the Club Librarian. If you have a 'bone' to pick with him he is listed in the front of the G&D. I think you will find he is a very approachable individual.

Ray, I certainly don't have a bone to pick . It seems that there is a medium that is available and should be used to make available the information the general membership of VCCA will never get a chance to use in the present form.

Then I stand corrected, I have not seen anything this club has in the way of archival information.

Brian

Ok in for a penny in for a pound. So here goes I have provided many mebers with information that I have in my personnel collection. Cost $0.00 to any of them. I would like to see a Technical section to the VCCA National site, and I know that this areas design an administration would most likely fall on one person (Bill) we won't menton names he already doesn't get enough credit for the fine job that he is doing with this site!! I also feel that most members would not have a problem with a small fee for research and copying of requested material. What we really need is a list of what info is available and who has it be it the Advisors, club Librarian, ect. I am not the computer whiz that Bill is but I would be glad to help in any way possible to assist in making this a better site and I don't doubt that there are many other member who feel this way. Also I think that there some advisors not to paint (hint) any of them in a poor light that need to be more responsive to members needs and requests they took on these responsibilities when they chose to be an Advisor. If it has gotten to be to much for them to handle then they need to ask for assistance from the board or the membership.

Now I'll get down off of the soap box and let some one else vent for a while. Thanks for listening and again thank you Bill Barker for a well designed and maintained site.

THIS IS THE BEST THING ON THE WEB. :) :) :) I'M GLAD THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE BILL WILLING TO GIVE OF THEMSELVES FOR OTHERS - THANKS AGAIN. :)

Man oh man... this thread just keeps getting better. So, who's going to summarize this discussion and write it up as a G&D article, or at least a letter to the editor??

And, just to show you how a little compliment can go a long ways... I've been energized and I've added a new graemlin!! Thanks for the kind words!

What about members who are not on the web? I am sure there are many. I see this entire hobby changing due to the internet, from way we buy and sell things to the way we exchange technical information. As far as posting all of this donated technical material, that would be a great thing. We must keep in mind that this would require some cost that we are not sure of and this must be explored fully before the Board can make a decision that would in the best interest of all, and the future of the club.
John "348" Mahoney :)

John, in reply to the question about those that aren't on the internet? They won't be any worse off than they are now, and they are getting to be somewhat of a minority and fewer each month. The plus side is LOOK HOW MANY MEMBERS it will help much more!!

Truly, The B.O.D or whoever instigated this site, they could not have picked a better person Than Bill Barker to handle the building and administration of the site, and I bet he also had some help, He is someone that folks want to help.

Look around, who knows we may have someone else that is talented and would do a good job, with some incouragement and assistance.

Us old codgers need to look for some new young blood members that have the skills and desire to get this accomplished.

Glad to read that some of you support more use of the internet and electonic archival of Chevrolet information. Is it a good time to again mention scanning of the back issues of the G&D onto CDs and having them searchable? I am willing to do one year if an when I get a writeable CD for my 'puter. I have a complete collection of the G&Ds as do a few others and use them at times to research questions. I have an MS Word document index of 1961-1995 thanks to "Big George". It makes searching for articles easier but I still have ~20 feet of shelf space taken up with the magazines. It would be a lot more convient to search a database online or cd. Anyone want to spearhead this? I don't have the time nor capability to do it yet.

THE CD'S ARE A GREAT IDEA, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COULD BE ONE PRICE FOR MEMBERS AND A HIGHER PRICE FOR NON-MEMBERS (SOME WILL JOIN TO GET THE LOWER PRICES, MAYBE). THIS WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL (CD'S) TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE OLD ISSUES. :) :) MAYBE THE CLUB COULD EVEN DO CD'S THAT COVER CERTAIN AREAS, LIKE BRAKES, ELEC., PAINT, ETC. OR CD'S FOR CERTAIN YEARS. LIKE THE WAY BILL HAS THIS SITE BROKEN UP. :)

Chip, maybe several of us could contribute to the effort, I just bought a computer with a CD burner and it has a HP scanner also, I just need to learn up on it. I do have a version of Word, don't remember which, must be fairly old the Microsoft Office is on 24 floppys. The computer came with Microsoft Works, an abbreviated copy of Word, I think.
May be you could assign several copies out and collect the CDs etc., etc.
The limiting factor with me is that being retired I have only limited time for projects. I don't understand how I ever had time to work full time.

This is really something. For Bill my deepest appreciation for this site. I have gathered the vast majority of my knowledge outside the confines of the VCCA. My journey into this site started with trying to figure out which wood wheel hubs to use on my 1929 Cabroilet I have found. A very kind VCCA member sent me a scan of a catalog he had but alas it was the same one I had (by the way the picture in this catalog is not accurate). I have in my possession what I believe to be a 1928 rear hub and from all accounts a 1929 rear hub. Identifying the fronts was a breeze. If I ever clearly ascertain which belong where maybe I'll research the other hubs for 1930 and piece together an article with drawings for the G&D to help others. Anyway back on topic. Yes I can agree on a fee for non members to access information but I wouldn't want to make membership manditory as that would probably scare people away. Copying and distributing GM copyrighted info would have to be done with their blessing and fees for access should be only that required to cover the costs of making it available. Anyway I will leave this for the more knowledgeable as I have to get back to finishing my 29 Sedan before I can start my Cabriolet. Best regards to all participants in this forum.
Cabboy

For the record the vote to have a secure site was NOT a vote against having it.

The issue was tabled until further specifics could be outlined to make it happen.

The board, generally speaking, felt that a more definitive plan and specifications needed to be created before voted on the issue. It will be resolved before the next meeting. :)

I believe that the technology commitee will find a solution that will meet the needs of the organization so that this can pass.

Since the IRS has become involved in the closing of Chatter to non-members. I have an IRS question;
since the VCCA is a non-profit group, the donating of material to the library is a tax deduction the donor can take on his tax return.

True?

Does the VCCA send letters to donors for use for the IRS? Who sets the value of the items?

Gator,
I'm not sure, but I think the VCCA is registered as an IRS 501 (c)(7), therfore donations are not tax deductable. A national board member would know the exact classifcation, I am only guessing.
Dan.