VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Vendors & Suppliers - Parts Hirsch Auto engine paint

A recent string of comments about engine paint color for early Chevy 6 stated that Hirsch engine paint is not correct shade of gray. I sent an email to Jeff Hirsh and here is his reply. "Dear Jim, Thanks for the email. I do understand your concern with the paint. Our engine enamel was matched many years ago to an original valve cover that a VCCA member sent in to us to use as the standard. To date our color has not changed from the standard. Is it possible that more than one color was used for the Chevy gray originally? This is the case for some of the other paints we carry like Pontiac Light Blue. If you can get a new standard together and send us an original part with the original paint on it to match, we will investigate it and adjust our color if necessary." Any takers on this offer?

Yes, that is the exact same answer I received from Bill Hirsch himself about 20 years ago when I inquired about the incorrect color of his paint. Over the past 20 years many, many people have told Bill Hirsch that the color of his paint is totally incorrect, and others have also offered to send in new old stock parts for them to match their paint to. This is nothing new. To date, some 20 years later nothing has changed. Bill Hirsch's paint is a very high quality paint, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the paint itself, just the color. It is like night and day between the color of his paint, and what the real color is supposed to be. And, while incorrect, his paint has been used in the hobby for so long, it has now pretty much become the standard, and getting folks turned around as to what the correct dark blue gray is supposed to be is going to be hard to do after all of these years. Bottom line, exact same answer from Hirsch, just 20 years later with no chances in the color. :( :( :(

JYD, just to satisfy my curosity what do you use for a standard for the blue gray paint, do you have some new old stock parts, paint chips or some original Duco paint,or what?
:arrow: :confused: o

Hey junkyard dog, It sounds to me that they need a sample of the filling stations paint If they are going to continue selling chevrolet engine paint. Getting them to sell the proper color seems to me to be a necessary thing to do. :)

Hey Macky Wacky! As I mentioned on the other thread, I have four or five new old stock parts in their original boxes, from the 1930's thru 1951, and I used those new old stock parts as a comparison to determine what paint to use. In running samples of the Filling Station's engine paint against my new old stock parts, the match is dead on, so that's the paint that I use since it does match the original. Now, hopefully Chevs of the 40's paint will match as well (chef-chevy is going to do a test between the two as he mentioned on the other thread), and so there might be two sources of paint for the car dudes to chose from. By the way, I also have a new old replacement stock can of Chevrolet engine paint that was made by an aftermarket company back in the 1940's and in testing that with both my new old stock parts, and the Filling Station's paint, while not an exact match, it is pretty darn close except that it is just a little darker yet.

Donald: Yep, you are correct! Bill Hirsch does need to change is product to conform to the correct color, but many guys have tried over the past twenty years, and nothing has changed yet. Probably because everyone thought that his paint was the standard for all of these years. As I mentioned earlier, his paint is of a very high quality and it sprays like a dream.....it's just that it's way to light in color. Well, things should change as more and more fellows become educated and want to do the job right, and Hirsch's paint sales might decline and then maybe they will change their color. Then again, maybe not.

Ok, That splains that......I don't know what I was worrying about anyway, I don't have any car running in that 29-52 range, I will have a 51 but it will have a 261 engine in it and I will paint it the original color - Yellow!

Hey, wouldn't this make a great TECH article

The tech. advisor on the paint would probably have nothing to say, since he is almost impossible to get in touch with from what I've heard. :( :(

The G&D has a color cover. That would work, or how about a centerfold featuring the "Chevy of the Month",and several months could be dedicated to different Chevrolet engines (in color of course) as well. That would be cool too.

JYD,
oh...Yeh...

Oh man, I love it! That pooch looks like one of my relatives.....my Uncle "Mutt" to be precise. Anyway, will they ever do it? Well, probably not in the near future because I think right now it would be cost prohibitive. :( :( :( :(

Maybe just One???

Hi LiL'Johnny. I have a great picture of my 1932 194 chevy engine fresh from the engine rebuilder that Is painted the correct color. I will find It and post It on this thread In the near future. This may help alot of guys as to what the filling stations engine paint color looks like.

hey dog,

if elvira rang your doorbell wearing nothing but bill hirsch grey engine paint, would you slam the door in her face?..

epi

Well I hate to be a killjoy but if we have a centerfold I certainly want some more provacative than a darn old engine! Maybe a picture of Elvira holding a Franklin Mint 32 Chevrolet roadster that JYD has painted the engine on, covering a stragic area of her anatomy!

mack,

are you sure that chevy has built an engine big enough to cover her anatomy?..

epi

Well, of course not! Ha!Ha!

MrMach, are you sure you are using the right shade of yellow? Yellows can be as different as blue-grays, you know! I think you need to "certify" your yellow (or is it the Yellow Rose of Texas color?). :confused:

Hey Chevrolet: NOPE! :love: :eek:

Gator since the 261 is a "modern" engine the yellow paint is well documented, it is close to school bus yellow

Videorangers' efforts to contact the Vendor (Hirsh) about why they use that engine color is commendable.

You have very valid points there Lil Johnny, and also, different factories did different things as well. Only one problem......the new old stock painted parts that I have in their original boxes (unopened until I opened them) match the original paint that is still on the original engine in my all original, unmolested, untouched, one owner (until I bought the car) 1932 Chevrolet Special Sedan. Now what?????? :confused: :confused: :confused:

If your 100% sure

Ha ha! Yes I'm sure that the engine has never been rebuilt or repainted. The car was purchased locally brand new from a Chevrolet dealeship not 18 miles from where I live and I have all of the documentation on the car, and I knew the fellow that purchased the car new, who only lived 9 miles from me. Also, the car spent most of it's life stored in a small garage where he kept the car since new. Many 1932 dudes know this car and they come here to use it as a major piece of documentation during their restorations because it is so original and never been touched. A key fact here is that the new old stock parts that I have are from the 1930's, the 1940's, and 1951, and all of them match the original paint that is on this original engine. Or sure, everyone sees shades of colors a little differently, but all of these parts match so close that it is unbelievable. Remember, that's what you requested......an all original engine to compare to, and here's one.

You are absolutely right, and I totally agree completely that it does take more than one sample to set a standard. So, explain to me why then Bill Hirsch's paint, which is only one sample, and incorrect at that, has set the standard for the past 25 years? I know when the Filling Station formulated their paint they received input from many different people and checked many, many different new old stock parts from various years and compared all of them before they made their engine paint. So, not just one sample was used, but many samples were used in that case.

Also, I like your idea about "Junkyard Dog Gray"! It works for me, and it matches my complexion too! Ya!

How many suppliers were offering "correct" Chevy grey engine paint 25-30 years ago? We know Hirsch was> any others? Your "standard" has to start somewhere.

I offered the correct color paint 30 years ago and that was before Bill Hirsch had his.After his came out I thought that fine let him sell it. then I saw what it looked like and ....mine was also matched from various new parts that I had. Yes, there were many new parts painted when they came out of the box.The shade could vary slightly but the cars also did when new.The blue tint to the gray is what was difficult to duplicate.I believe that I charged $12.00 a quart with shipping but it also went up each year. It was Acme brand and would brush on and level ot perfectly.

Chev Nut: is there any "common part"(

Do you know the Acme code?

The radiator overflow tanks are close but not 100%.They ran a little more to the gray side.The parts that came thru painted were the stamped sheet metal parts such as timing covers, valve and side covers and oil pans.Also some thermostat housings and intake manifolds.I even had a new 265 1955 intake manifold in the box that was painted gray-as it also fit trucks and V 8 truck engines were gray.Cylinder heads and engine blocks were unpainted but a new complete engine was painted...I am thinking of trying to photograph a part and post the picture BUT I have never done this hi-tech feat as yet and don't know if the color reproduction would be the same on everyones screen...........Acme didn't have a paint number. I had the color duplicated at an automotive paint store.They were very good at it but the big problem , even at at that time, was the correct mixing colors were no longer available and it took them a lot of time and effort to duplicate the color....This is the same problem in duplicating the older exterior colors today.Even if you had the original mixing formula today it would be of no value as the necessary colors are no longer available.....I have not seen the Filling Stations paint but out of curiosity will be ordering some .....The VCCA can't really "certify" the color as its up to the car owner to prove ,with documentation, that an item is correct.There is enough tolarence in the color department that this isn't a big problem.Also the engine colors were not that exact from new and even an engine having the original paint would most likely have fadded or discolored since mew as this was only a low quality enamel....When they came in as used cars a few years old the engine would be washed (steamed or with a solvent) and the gray would turn a much lighter color (like B.H. paint).

Would it be possible for the G&D to use the back cover as a giant paint chip with several (I don't know if there is any conflict about any other colors in other years) of the different engine colors, (you could devide it into like 6 chips)? With the G&D in a plastic wrap it would protect the back and the thicker & slick paper (and color already used) it just might make a good 'chip' and a good starting point for us to use at the paint store or to hold beside our motor/parts to compare colors.

This would also be something that adds 'value' to being a member of the VCCA since only members get the G&D.

ChevNut,
your right that it would be a "cover" or small piece of some sort that got attached to the engine...

I had one.........but it expired! :( :( :( :( :(

I have ordered a pint of paint from the Filling Station.I will evaluate it by comparing it to the parts I have.You will then have my opion if its a "go"....Will try posting a photo as I need the experiance....have a new computer, printer, copier, scanner and camera .My son showed me the basics but my mind takes awhile to learn new things.Could that be a sign of old age :confused: :confused:

Update: I just finished rebuilding a water pump for a customer today, and I painted it with the "FS" paint. After the paint was throughly dry, I compared it to the paint on the new old stock parts that I have, and the color is dead on. The darkness of the "FS" gray matches the darkness of the gray on the NOS parts exactly. However, if you look really hard in the bright sunlight, the new old stock parts might have just a "tad" more of a bluish tint in the gray, but it's so little that I would say the "FS" paint is a perfect match!