VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Tim and Naomi's big adventure.

Hi all
Well, what a weekend.....This weekend was the second combined clubs bi-annual Kalgoorlie to Norseman run. 200 kilometres passing through two whistle stop towns in the Australian outback. After a very enjoyable BBQ we retired to the motel for the night, to be out to the town centre by 9am for the car/bike and machinery show. A very small affair by most standards I guess, but a very important event on the local calender and one that helps to promote the preservation of old vehicles over a vast but sparsely populated area.
Cars/trucks and bikes also travelled up from Esperance 200 kilometres south to participate in this fundraising event, for which the proceeds from the BBQ and various raffles etc went to the Norseman senior citizens support group.
How did our chev 28 go on its first long run? Not bad considering. One word could describe the weather conditions. HOT....... 40C degree heat and with the wind from absolutely the wrong direction (from behind or cross wind)
The first fifty kilometres went well, but I was unaware that I was pushing it too hard at almost 40+MPH and losing water until I checked it at our second stop and found that I had lost most of it. I refilled it (running) and we hit the road again, but almost immediately it started to misfire, gradually getting worse until we were forced to pull over. Fortunately I had a sneaking suspicion about the erratic misfiring and replaced the condensor with a spare. It solved the misfiring, but twenty kilometres down the road the temperature had suddenly risen again forcing us to stop and top up again. It wasn't taking much water each time, but I think the two litres we were losing was enough for the system to stop operating.
This set the pattern for the rest of the trip. We finally pulled into Norseman six hours after leaving Kalgoorlie with one last stop 10 kilometres out to replace a fouled plug. By this time we were running with the choke partly deployed to help the motor run a little cooler by richening up the mixture, so that probably accounted for the fouled plug, as the vehicle used practically no oil for the trip. We had also removed the pre heat pipe to try and cool the incoming air a little.
The question on our minds now was, why were we losing water? After much discussion we think it may be the fault of the modern water pump replacing the original. It circulates water at a very fast rate, possibly too fast for the water to gravitate down through the core, with the result that some is pushed out of the overflow pipe. A restrictor may help solve this problem after I have established wether there is a thermostat fitted. The belt was also very poor, which may not have been helping by failing to spin the four blade fan properly.
We checked on the weather that we would be experiencing for the trip home and decided that although it was probably going to be as hot or hotter we would carry out no changes as we would have the benifit of a head wind to help push air through the radiator. This turned out to be a fair call, and with regular stops to top up the water we made it home in five hours.
I must thank Neville and Vera Stone for their help over the weekend. My wife and kids transferred to Veras (modern) car after the first breakdown and Neville accompanied me for the rest of the weekend to help with driving and water duties, tolerating the high temperature in the chev when he could have been sitting in his comfortable air conditioned car.
I am feeling pretty frazelled today but happy that we completed the trip without needing a tow. Naomi and the kids enjoyed themselves, and from all accounts every one that participated did also, despite the heat.
The chev proved that, with care and attention it will get us there and we are looking forward to the next outing. We may be tempted to check the weather predictions though............
Thanks all,
Tim Bailye.

Well Tim, all in all sounds like not too bad a day considering the circumstances. One question did you try different positions for the spark advance lever? Was steam comeing out or mostly just hot water? I would say try a slower speed, maybe?
I had a kind of a scary time a last month . I was getting the 28 ready to drive in a parade early in the morning, it was raining cats and dogs (no offence meant JYD) it was dark and I was in a hurry, mistakenly put diesel fuel in, it was one of those multiple fuel pumps with one nozzle, put in 4.9 gallons into a 10 gallon tank, so I drove it without killing it, did ok , not any heating, just a loss of power, drove it onto the trailer towed it 250 miles home and drained the tank and vacuum tank, repaced with 87 octane unleaded, and after it smoked for a couple of minutes it smoothed out, and seems no permanent damage resulted , can't blame the old girl for having a stupid driver, she let me get bye with it this time,I reckon.

Hey Macky Wacky! Sounds like you should join the Ford club!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :( :( :( :rolleyes:

Tim, before spending any money or wasting any time, go to a radiator specialist and get the head gasket checked (bubbles in water when revving engine moderately) and the radiator flow checked. Should not be water pump problem because new pump is based on old design, which was fine. Thermostat does nothing except marginally limit flow rate to radiator, but primarily maintains the engine within a steady temp range, ie best operating temp. Thermostat should be around 160 degrees. The original hemp packing will cause small bubbles in the water at high revs due to air being drawn past the packing. I would guess that your radiator will be partially blocked, and the fouled plug may point to a leaking head gasket as well as possible piston ring/valve seal problems. 40 mph should be easily maintained. My 28,(standard drive train) would sit on 50 all day. Never game to try faster, skinny tyres etc.

JYD, Do I need to join the Ford guys because I said cats and dogs together or because of stupidity? ( I used to own a Ford last one was a 1930) wish I still had it, not as a replacement for Klinkerbelle but so I would have something ,original, that had a crank with a socket on the end of the cranking tool!


Guess what??? I got my computer fixed! see you!

Dogs and cats are cool! But, I was talking about your diesel '28 Chevy. Didn't know that they made one....with or without a socket on the crank. :eek:

Well JYD, I guess that is where GM got the idea for the Multifuel engine that the Army used in Nam or was that American Motors Kiaser Jeep?!

Hum..........maybe your '28 Chevy was a diesel rig in an earlier life? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Well JYD I don't think so, the poor old thing didn't like the stinking stuff too well, She just ran so we could get back to the trailer and get out of the rain, and as a big favor to me.... I think she kinda likes me!

Hum.......maybe she does like you! But, if it would have been Donald that had the problem, he would have poured Budweiser in the gas tank instead!

Actually, I'm really surprised that your '28 even ran at all on the diesel fuel. You were lucky. :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Yeah, JYD, I was worried that it might effect the EG and MAS sensors and stop up the TPI and short out the HEI, but the old gal has the stamina and the heart of a CHEVROLET, she is ..."Heartland of America!" and ...." Like a Rock" all rolled into one fine 75 year old package!
It don't get any better than that!!!!

Yes it does...............when you own a Dusenberg SJ. :cool2:

My dad had a '28 roadster for years (it's now sitting at the bottom of the bay in Martinez, California...that's another story like Donald's "Chevy In The Lake") and he ran it quite a bit on Kerosene to save money. He mentioned that the car ran fine! Also, in the winter time he would pull the roadster body and install a '28 sedan body on the chassis and then in the summer he would reinstall the roadster body. Sounds like too much work to me! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Well, JYD,since I was a son of an "Oil Patch" worker from Tonkawa Oklahoma I had never even seen a Duesuenburg? til I went to Auburn and toured the factory, Maybe I did see one being driven in a Fox newsreel by either Tom Mix or Clark Gable! I was more familular with a KB-14 Road Binder Diesel or a B-61 Mack,..... that is who I was named after,... a 1936 Mack Truck. That is how much my Dad loved me!...... What did your Dad name you after Skip?
sounds like your Dad had a REAL Convertiable, and thought the game was worth the strain and the pain!

My 27 burned alot of No. 1 diesel during the 50's. It did quite well. Our 1932 John Deere started on gas then ran on no. 1 diesel most of the time. It kept the neighbor kids from stealing the fuel when we left it in the fields overnight.

Tim try to lift your foot from the acelerator from time to time and let the poor thing breathe,(and suck up some fuel, you will hear the vacuum tank suck) once you have used the mass volume from your vacuum tank the motor will work harder and get hotter thats why you had to use the choke to keep it running because your not giving the vacuum tank time to replenish your using what it's sucking (you need a relatively full vac tank not a low level) your car has the tall diff gears and I know will sit on 40 plus as it has many times with my 28 and my family on dozens of runs ,its just a learning curve, for you to get used to the different way of driving and understanding these old cars (be patient, you've got a few more months of learning about your car).

Only months??? Actually, I learnt a little trick yesterday while wondering how to remove the crank pulley without a puller. On the weekend we found that the pulley was loose on the shaft and the key worn, so Monday I pulled the radiator off etc to remove the pulley. I found that I could engage the crank handle and by keeping some pressure on it I could tap on the back of the handle crank and gradually remove the pulley. Once I got it off I found that it was warped from a previous encounter with a puller. Luckily I had a spare pulley on hand.
Amazing what you can do in a pinch.
Thanks for the advice about lifting my foot off occasionally. We were driving on hand throttle 99% of the time, so that could be a possible contributor.
Tim.

Tim, don't you feel comfortable having a cruise control mounted on the steering wheel, and a roll up windscreen

But just think.........if you had a Dusenberg SJ you could put your '28 Chevy in the back seat and then use it when you want to go shopping!

Oh Boy you did it then JYD, I'll have you know my Klinkerbelle don't take no-back seat to no...body!

Tim, hand throttle or not, still the same thing. Doesn't make a spot of difference. And whether there is no petrol in the vacuum tank, or a full vacuum tank, so long as the float bowl is full the engine will run correctly. The carby cannot pull fuel. It has a breather, therefore the pressure in the float bowl is the same as outside it. You can prove this by disconnecting the vacuum line from the manifold. Once the vacuum tank is empty, the engine will stop. KAPUT.... And unless it's mighty hilly, there will always be a vacuum tank full of petrol. You are pumping water out of the cooling system for a limited no. of reasons. eg, blown head gasket, cracked head, blocked or partially blocked radiator, a leak somewhere, particularly check the water pump sealing (replace with neoprene seal), cracked block (possibly into a piston cavity if you are fouling a plug, although you should hear that sort of noise)baffle plate missing from behind impeller. Also check that the extra 2 bladed fan is on the right way, with the leading edge closest to the radiator. Around the wrong way and the car will overheat, and nothing will stop it. The engine might be getting so hot as to be boiling the water off. Lots of steam and spitting water when you pop the radiator cap. Have you a motometer. What is it saying???

Dont think I have a leak into a cylinder as I replaced the fouled plug before the return 200 KM trip. I pulled the new plug when I got home and it was fine. Once I have refitted the radi along with a new pump and belt I will go looking for leaks. It uses a Holden red motor pump fitted via an adapter housing. I checked the timing and it was a few degrees down at idle but on the open road at speed I am able to advance it until it just starts to knock a little then back it off till it stops, so I reckon the timing is fine.
I still think the forty degree Celcius cross-wind and bad belt were the main contributors. On reflection I think it was steaming the water off as much as blowing it out.
It does have a motometre. Saturday was the first time I have seen the red climb up into the circle. We would go fine for a while, then the red would climb into the middle of the sight and then we knew it was only a matter of time until we had to stop and add some water. If we let it run for too long with the red in the middle, when we stopped it would be boiling badly and the water right down.
Tim.

The holden water pump has WAY WAY too much flow rate (deep impellor), and fitting a restrictor in the water pipes will only cause it to cavitate, ie, lots and lots and lots of bubbles, with much restricted cooling capacity, with the head filling with bubbles and displacing the water. You must put back the original. If the temp was ok for a while, as u indicate, then something was causing it to lose water. Your setting of timing is right, but is better set using the manuals technique. With the lever fully advanced, it should be set correctly, and not able to ping. That way if you are in a noisy environment and can't hear/don't notice the pinging, you cannot do any damage. Let it ping for a while and magically, pistons grow holes. How did you go with the front pulley???

If u cannot refit an original water pump, then u have to gear the existing pump down, so that it rotates at about half the revs of the original. Requires another pulley. Did the original owner have this problem??

Refitted the replacement pulley with a new key and some loctite bearing mount and it seemed to fit nice and firm, so we may have solved that problem.
Adapter housing for the pump is out at a machine shop having an eighth of an inch removed to solve an alignment problem it had, resulting in reduced belt life. The Holden pump will have to stay in place until I get my spare original pump overhauled and fitted with neoprene seals. This car never displayed any tendancy to overheat or lose water until this long hot trip, so I think the Holden pump will suffice for our normal around town and short journeys until then.
A few weeks back in cooler weather we did a sixty kilometre round trip and it was fine, so unless we have a new fault causing these problems, I am not too concerned.

i have a 28 coach and am trying to sell it.But if i cant sell it in the time frame ive set i`ll go ahead with the restoration.Question:does anyone make wood kits for these.The sheet metal is really good but of course the wood is not.I think thats where id start first.any help would be appreciated