I am working on a 1929 AC-LQ 1-1/2 ton truck, 6 cylinder.
I removed the water pump to expose the round steel disc that sits right behind where the water pump impeller operates.
My friend informed me these are replaced with new brass disc. He also advised me to write to this forum to ask if mine should be replaced based on its condition and/or to see that all is well with the engine that can be observed once the disc is removed?
When I drained the oil I did not see any obvious signs of water.
I have attached photos of the disc's appearance, as seen from the front, and the water pump impeller to show its condition.
Because I am the fourth owner of the vehicle, I do not know if the disc, and water pump with impeller are the original or a replacement.
If it is suggested to have the steel disc removed and replaced with a new brass disc, can you advise how to uninstall the current disk and how to obtain and install a new brass disc.
Hello NormanCushing, Welcome. My first thought was to suggest recommendations about what I might do. But, how would I know what YOUR engine issues and goals are? Tell us if you just want to keep the engine going or making more new/permanent type repairs. Your friend made a good suggestion asking VCCA. Folks here are willing to help/advise when they understand what is wanted, then they'll advise what is needed. For a beginning, review the listings under 'water pump' that the Filling Station has and read their descriptions. These give you options to consider. Please let us know what your engine plans are BEFORE we throw our OPINIONS at you. Cheers. Harry
Harry, thank you for your reply and the good question.
I found on F.S. the brass baffle for the 29 engine, part # RW-182. Thank you for the guidance.
At this time, my near term goal is not to fully restore the truck to new condition, and I am not looking to compete in any contest to have the most OEM vehicle. Instead, I have the short term goal to get the truck so it can be enjoyed as a part-time vehicle for short and fun trips/drives. I what to arrive at a truck that is runnable, reliable, safely drivable, and registered/licensed so that it can be taken on a few outings that will not over tax the vehicle's mechanical systems. In other words, take it on a 20 to 40 mile trip rather than a 2,500 mile trip.
While I have the engine exposed, if there are things I can do to help insure the overall reliability of the vehicle, provide improved safety during driving, and protect the engine and drive train from thermal or mechanical damage, I am willing to proactively take preemptive steps to secure the mechanical well being of the truck.
I might not touch all systems on the truck for the near goal, but what I do touch I hope to do correctly. As an example, to roll the truck out of the garage, I had the rims bead blasted and powder coated, and this weekend I will install new tires, tubes, and flaps. I am building a new wiring harness due to most every wire having multiple exposed wires along its trace. And, I will be replacing FS-75, the Rocker Arm Oil Wick Set, and I am replacing all the clevis pins in the brake and e-brake linkages, and missing return springs. Before hitting the road I do plan to examine and attend to any brake issues. The rear differential is leaking a few drops each day. I plan to replace the seal soon after the engine is running. And, there is a lesser leak either at the front side of the drive shaft or at the transmission/clutch/engine interface. This leak may not need near term attention, provided I keep oil levels proper.
At this time... As I go through the truck to get it runnable, I am weighting the options to either stay with the existing water pump or installing the newer sealed water pump F.S. part # WP-836259. I did notice a wee bit of leakage around the packing material area (not sure if the compression nut can be further tightened). I removed the pump to examine the baffle which lead to the question about replacing it with the brass replacement.
And, while I have the oil pan off, I was also weighting the option of installing the upgraded geared oil pump, F.S. part #s: RW-454, geared Oil pump; Oil pump pickup and screen; RW-533R, and FS-435 the Oil Pump Thrust Washer.
Perhaps the brass baffle, sealed water pump, geared oil pump, and addition of the oil filter are projects for another day. A day after the vehicle meets the near term goal.
Once the near term goal is meet (running, safely drivable, and registered), I will consider the goal of taking it to the next level of going through/overhauling any mechanical systems needing further attention, and improving the performance and aesthetics of the body, doors, windows, interior, and bed.
Hello NormanCushing, Good to hear what your progression and goals are. I have read many posts concerning engine overheating. You might direct the near term efforts regarding the cooling system. The looks of the baffle plate appear past better days. What lurks behind it and throughout the rest of the engine (passages/freeze plugs) and thermostat, heater and radiator system? If you're able to satisfy yourself about the health of the cooling system, that will be a sturdy base to build upon. I'll pass regarding how to remove and replace the water pump baffle. To do it correctly, others here with experience should advise. That way, I'll learn also.
Mine had a hole through it. I pulled it out and cleaned up the shoulder where it sits. I may have cleaned it out a little too much, as the brass baffle was a loose fit. If needed, you can use JB weld to build up the recess. Make sure the pump rotor has clearance from the plate. There may be instructions with the new plate.
Thank you for the reply and guidance. I will take a look at it on Friday or Saturday to see how easy it will be to extract. Based on your experience, I will do the cleanup of the seat only after the brass baffle arrives so I can use it as a guide. You make a good point about the clearance from rotor to baffle.
My understanding is: It’s a pressure fit. Find or put a hole in the steel baffle, pry it out, clean up the seat, press the brass baffle into place, check the clearance to the water pump impellor.
Hello NormanCushing, The Filling Station has Tech Articles. Under 'Mechanical' see 1918-1936 Cooling System Problems & Cures. When discussing the baffle plate removal, avoid the CENTER of the plate with removal tools. #1 cylinder being close by. Different subject: You mentioned possible oil leak around clutch housing and having removed the oil pan. No rear main seal is used/installed, crankshaft design (when running) generally blocks oil from leaking out the rear. Oil flow (at rear of engine) is directed thru a port in the rear main CAP back to the oil pan. This port/tunnel uses a check ball within (held in from falling out by a pin). The reason for this is, it was found that if the vehicle was parked facing uphill, oil pan oil would flood at the rear main and leak past the crankshaft. The check ball would move to block the oil from flooding the rear main. If check ball doesn't move freely, say gummed up from old oil, it could block normal oil flow and be the cause of a constant oil leak. Some folks decide to remove the check ball, others don't and choose to keep clean oil to prevent sticking. Don't know if you knew this already, so decided to mention it.
I did not know about the check ball and the way oil is retained at the rear. Also, thank you for the guidance to review the F.S. articles and the note about the proximity of the #1 cylinder. I will review all literature and post here how removal and installation goes following the arrival of the new brass baffle.
Regarding the front oil leak, when I drained the engine oil it was quite dark in color trending towards black. The oil that leaked out and collected in a drip pan is quite amber in color. I suspect the transmission is the source and the amber color is because it dripped often enough in the past that it was being continuously refilled. That is just a guess. I will examine the transmission level before driving. In the past 2 weeks while cleaning off the dirt, grime, and oil residue, I see no dripped oil or oil beads on the bottom of the transmission, clutch housing, or engine pan, since I degreased all of it. The engine oil pan has always been completely free of oily residue or identifiable leaks. If the leak is the transmission, I am not sure if its at the front or the back. I plan to check its level, fill it properly, and then wait and see.
The differential rear located cover is also leaking about 4 drips or more per day. It too is amber in color. I plan to remove and reseal the cover, and refill before driving.
Thank you for offering your wisdom, guidance, and encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.
Drill your hole to remove the plate at 3 or 9 o’clock because the cylinder wall is close to the center. Of course, don’t drill deep as the original disk is thin anyway. As stated earlier. The shelved edge can get eroded away some so JB weld is often required to help hold the new disk in. Absolutely hands down install the modern components water pump as it gives you a maintenance free, drip free alternative to the original. As far as the oil pumps go, if your original vane pump is in good shape with long vanes and good springs, stay with it. These are splash bath engines and while the center main/thrust bearing is fed from the pump, there is little pressure as the system relies more on volume to fill the oil troughs. The vane pumps do a fine job at this. I’ve installed both and find a little more pressure when cold with the gear pump on a fresh engine but both types feed oil equally well. I don’t believe the added expense of the gear pump is worth it if you have a good vane pump you can install. These engines also gain very little if anything from added oil filters as todays oils are so much better and todays roads offer very little dirt compared to what these vehicles originally ran on. Adding them in my opinion is a waste and only “modernizes” the engine compartment. The oil pump thrust washer you refer to I believe is the washer at the base of the distributor housing that sits on top of the oil pump when it’s installed. For some reason it seems through the years mechanics have discarded this washer when they pull the distributor. Many engines don’t seem to have them but Ive also found a few that have. Probably 4 out of ten.
A big thanks to all of you that contributed back with a reply stating your guidance, and help by "beachbum", I was able to successfully clean out the block and change the water baffle. Thank you!
