I know this will be hard because its a picture, but I am hoping to find out what sort of "fix" I'd be looking at on the following issue:
Our patient today is a 1939 coupe, with a couple of cracks leading away from the bumper bracket hole. I am told that the metal behind seems solid, with no rust, and this is thick paint cracking. My theory, is that there is probably some filler here - and maybe it got a bit too thick, or maybe it didn't and is just failing - but as you can see, whether thick paint or filler, there are several cracks running away from the bumper bracket, and they have gotten worse over the last 2 years - so it appears to be a problem that needs stamped out before it gets any worse. The paint is believed to by acrylic, with a pearl topcoat - which I have to imagine would make matching difficult - but, I'm really not sure.
Can anyone with more experience give some thoughts on cause, repair and whether this is something than can be "blended in" or are we looking at reshooting the car because of the pearl? (it is not known what color was used, nor what pearl top coat)
I think you have filler that is detatching from the metal and possibley because of the metal flexing. I would be investigating fully to the extent of lifting the cracked edge a finding out how much lifts of. Tony
I agree that appears to be filler detaching and cracking. Assessing what rust may or may not be underneath that area is really a guess.
Because that is a “corner” of the body around the trunk opening that area does flex just due to body motion as you drive the car.
As you already know, there are really only 2 choices. Leave it as is and enjoy driving the car. Or fix it properly.
I cannot offer any advice with respect to blending the pearl paint. I will say that I have been impressed by what a talented auto painter can do with blending.
Normally if there is rust the paint will have bubbles. I don't see any. However, the surface will probably have to be taken down to bare metal and repaired from there. Most quality automotive paint shops like Dupont, PPG, Sherwin Williams and others should be able to match the paint. The color should not be that difficult to match.A good painter will have little trouble blending it. I doubt that body flexing will cause this.
Even if it is Metal it must be taken down to correct. I have putty in the rear of my 35 Master that has been there for over 40 years and it has not cracked.
The added complications here are that the car is 2500 miles away, and obviously even if it were local, physically picking at the the paintwork is generally frowned upon by the seller ;-) I'm going to see if someone can get eyes on it for me, but they won't be any better versed in paint and body work that I.
The summary I can take for you all though, I think, is that regardless of the underlying issue - fix is the same - the entire area needs taken down to the metal and repaired / refilled and then paint-matched - which a good body shop should be able to do. It also seems likely that the cracking is in an area of flex - so worsening overtime makes sense.
The question now is whether I want to take it on, or not. If it were anything else (Interiors, electrics, mechanical) I'd tackle it myself - but I've had my go-rounds with body and paint - I have never come out on top - negative number level skills. I usually avoid cars that have this sort of issue for that reason.
I’m going to add another perspective that I hope will not offend anyone. From reading your post my sense is this is a car you are looking to buy. If so, I’d be questioning more than the cracking shown in the pictures. As noted by others, the cracking appears to be caused by inadequate preparation of the base metal or substrates underneath the topcoat. If the area shown in the pictures has failed, how many other areas on the car have similar issues that have not yet revealed themselves. Mike
Mike is correct, only 1 patch was shown so that is all I commented on but there could be several other places nearly the same. As with any car of that age rust and body flex is always going to take its toll. Tony
There is a tool with a magnet on it that measures the depth of the paint. It also reveals if filler is under the paint. Try t in a few spots and see what you find. Use it in any areas that are common to find rust or dents. Also check the floor behind this area. If it was not replaced is there any evidence that it was 'crinkled' or that there may have been reasons for excessive filler?
I have found that having an old car is a constant project that is never done. I think that is a good thing. Keeps me learning new things. Having two from different eras is just a form of higher education.
Maybe I am missing something. Is this car a rod/custom? The more I look at the 2 pictures I see more questions than answers.
First of all, the paint is a pearl so we know that is not like the original. I noticed what appear to be blue-dot tail lights. What is the steel piece running underneath the width of the rear of the car? I cannot read the label on that but it sure does not look stock.
I do agree that it would be very unusual to find only one area of concern on the body of a car this age. My assessment is that you are looking at a minimum $2,000 repair bill for just that rear trunk area.
If this is a custom car and you buy it, get every piece of documentation that you can from the owner. You will need this information if you ever need to make repairs or even service the car. There is no parts book for a rod/custom.
This is very much a personal opinion. I don't know the asking price but I assume it is in the low 5 figure range. I would never spend that amount of money without seeing and driving the vehicle myself.
I’m going to add another perspective that I hope will not offend anyone. From reading your post my sense is this is a car you are looking to buy. If so, I’d be questioning more than the cracking shown in the pictures. As noted by others, the cracking appears to be caused by inadequate preparation of the base metal or substrates underneath the topcoat. If the area shown in the pictures has failed, how many other areas on the car have similar issues that have not yet revealed themselves. Mike
It is, and I agree. That said, I do feel a buyer (myself in this case) needs to have their expectations in check - which in this case means I'm not looking at a show car, nor paying the price for one. I fully expect most any car this old that as also been restored / modified to have some filler - which is fine provided its used properly. In the case of the crack here - something wasn't done right - but I don't necessarily associate that with the eventuality of more problems. It is a concern of course, but in my view: Unless you are buying an original car in its original paint, or a restored car where the craftsmanship of the work can be fully backed by the name of the restorer, then you will always take the risk of issues showing up later - that is the nature of cars in their 80's. Its like I tell people - If you aren't prepared to deal with the unexpected, classic cars probably shouldn't be your thing .
Originally Posted by Rusty 37 Master
Maybe I am missing something. Is this car a rod/custom? The more I look at the 2 pictures I see more questions than answers.
First of all, the paint is a pearl so we know that is not like the original. I noticed what appear to be blue-dot tail lights. What is the steel piece running underneath the width of the rear of the car? I cannot read the label on that but it sure does not look stock.
I do agree that it would be very unusual to find only one area of concern on the body of a car this age. My assessment is that you are looking at a minimum $2,000 repair bill for just that rear trunk area.
If this is a custom car and you buy it, get every piece of documentation that you can from the owner. You will need this information if you ever need to make repairs or even service the car. There is no parts book for a rod/custom.
This is very much a personal opinion. I don't know the asking price but I assume it is in the low 5 figure range. I would never spend that amount of money without seeing and driving the vehicle myself.
The steel piece you refer to is the cross bar of a four-post lift. The car has been modified - externally it appears stock, but has the standard 350 / 350 conversion on a 68' Camaro subframe.
In terms of buying sight unseen - in this case I have family in the area that are going to take a look - although they are not overly experienced, I have armed them with my "checklist". Overall though, I'd say that if you do your homework, you can do well buying remotely - I've done so at least a dozen times at this point, and this car is around the middle of what I've paid previously.
I am taking the feedback seriously however, I've basically dropped from a 90% chance I'd buy, to something more like 70%. The car seems to have other alignment issues (picture below - see how the grill does not meet up with the body part below - its as though the fenders and grill are an inch too far forward and likewise the gaps between hood, grill and body - although the hood may not have been latched closed). Ultimately it may come down to price - if the car is solid elsewhere, I'll have a shop fix the the rest, assuming there's a deal to be made.
I'm a bit late to the party. As a young man I made my living as a body & fender man for a few years then as a painter before moving on to another vocation. The cracking in your first pictures IS body filler cracking and probably lifting. How much filler is left to be determined. If it was applied thick enough to crack or the preparation was poor enough that it cracked, it's a red flag for the general build quality (lack thereof) of the whole project. Further indicators are in your last photo. The protruding lower radiator baffle (chin piece) and grill/hood gap are likely caused by the sub frame modification not allowing them to fit normally and the original builder not having he skill to modify them or, even worse, not caring that it isn't right. Were it me, and I just HAD to have the car, I would hire an inspection firm to do a full inspection of the car. There are inspection companies advertising in Hemmings or you can Google them. Personally I would run far and run fast (as far and fast as an old fat man with bad legs can run). Fixing other's mistakes is usually far more expensive than one expects. Good luck.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
I'm a bit late to the party. As a young man I made my living as a body & fender man for a few years then as a painter before moving on to another vocation. The cracking in your first pictures IS body filler cracking and probably lifting. How much filler is left to be determined. If it was applied thick enough to crack or the preparation was poor enough that it cracked, it's a red flag for the general build quality (lack thereof) of the whole project. Further indicators are in your last photo. The protruding lower radiator baffle (chin piece) and grill/hood gap are likely caused by the sub frame modification not allowing them to fit normally and the original builder not having he skill to modify them or, even worse, not caring that it isn't right. Were it me, and I just HAD to have the car, I would hire an inspection firm to do a full inspection of the car. There are inspection companies advertising in Hemmings or you can Google them. Personally I would run far and run fast (as far and fast as an old fat man with bad legs can run). Fixing other's mistakes is usually far more expensive than one expects. Good luck.
Well, the inspection firm (consisting of my parents, a checklist I gave them, and a highlighter) are arriving on scene in about an hour. I've used the professionals too a few times - varied results. I do agree that, as a collection of issues, this does seem to point toward issues following the conversion. I do know that the '39 seems to be a challenge to align everything, but as you say - its hard to know which concerns are tied into the sub-frame, versus which can be remedied through adjustment. The good news is, I should have a lot more pictures, videos and my mother's indecipherable handwriting to work with by this evening ;-)
Well folks - just closing the loop here. Decision was not to buy the car. Overall it had a lot going for it, but as some of you predicted, there were other similar issues elsewhere on the car, and overall there was a theme of unskilled / inexperienced workmanship. The current owner didn't do the work, so there was no history on what the car needed at the time, but it was fairly evident that both front and rear corners had some extensive work, and it was failing to various degrees. The paint also exhibited other signs of age / perhaps poor prep - but the basic summary is that for me, this was the wrong car. I can restore interiors, fix mechanical issues, redo wiring - but I've never had any success with body and fender work. In my opinion, this car would have needed a strip, fix and respray - too many issues to try patch it up and blend.
So, the search continues.
Thanks for the feedback - it helped make the decision.
