VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Broken oil line under valve cover, need help Please!

1941 Master Deluxe, 216 numbers indicate block made in 41. I do not know the history of the engine and took the valve cover off for the first time today. It was leaking allot of oil out of the valve cover so I and my sons planned to change it. Found it was cracked at all four corners. Also found all parts covered in oil under the valve cover. The line that the manual describes as 'oil distributer to rocker arm pipe' is cracked and not connected to the rocker arm piece / shaft. There is a wire that is holding on the return pipe, this too is not solidly connected to anything. We have but a few thousand miles on this since we put it on the road and other than burning / leaking allot of oil it has run ok.

How do we fix this?
What parts do we need?
What else should I be looking at knowing this occurred?
How much time should we plan to fix this? For use early to mid October is end of season.

Was looking at the filling station and saw the parts below but where is the part it connects to and how do I get to it?

Rocker are oil line kit

The oil line begins on the left side (LOW) on the block A
Passes etween # 3 and #4 cylindr barres (passes thru the collant) to the push rod gallery on the right side of the block bhind the push rod cover. the goes up thru a passage in the top of the block and botton of he head to the rockwr arms.

If you do a search I am sure you will find several threads hrar with a way to replace it,

I see my messge IS NOT THERE SO DO A SEACH OF THE ROCKR LINE OILS KITS = SO COMMON IN THE PAST.

Don't start the engine any more until you get the oil line repaired. If it was me, others may differ in their opinions, I would remove the spark plugs to remove starter resistance & increase cranking speed. Then crank the starter until you see oil coming out of the broken end you show in your photo. This will tell whether that's the only break in the line or not. If you get a decent flow of oil out of the line and IF the routing is the same as my 38, I would try to add a short piece of line between the break and the fitting between the rocker shafts (just above the break). You can buy line and compression fittings. The other, and correct fix, is to replace the line. If it passes through the block in the same manor as my 38 no one sells an exact replacement oil line kit. What is sold can be made to work but often fail. I personally don't know if the line is the same as my 38. Hopefully it's better and an easier fix.

I recently found basic instructions indicating that this had to go though the water jacket. Not looking forward to that in any way. I might try and splice the line as Tiny has suggested.

The real head scratcher is why is there wire holding on the tube coming out the other side of this and what is that line supposed to do? It is also broken free and is only held on by the piece of wire. Is this parts only purpose in life to direct oil back down the hole it currently ends in? On the return side am I better off just removing the part and letting the oil find its own way back?

We where planning on changing the plugs this weekend so with the cover off we can check for oil flow. I suspect that will be ok since it was leaking from the valve cover and everything somehow became coated in oile under the valve cover. Not sure how this got coated when the line is disconnected.

The line that loops over the fitting is to direct overflow back into the drain hole the line comes up through. People have been known to pinch that off in an attempt to increase pressure to the rocker arms.

Just removed the plugs and cranked it over. After a minute oil steadily flowed out. Not real fast but about what I would expect for the size line and RPMs. There is no oil in the coolant so I think it is okay there.

For the return side, currently the line is not connected, just held in place by a wire. It is broken off we're it mounts to the fixture. How was this originally connected, soldered? I am terrible at sweating pipes and this looks about like that. What is the best option to attach a new line or plug it?

Thanks for the help so far. We were concerned about how bad of a rabbit hole the may go. Seeing the oil come out helped. Also knowing that everything under the cover is well coated in oil shows that oil was getting in there. Question is was it getting where it needed it and what damage was done.

This is what the line looks like behind the lower side cover.

Tim, I agree with Tiny, I’d try determine if there is room above the surface of the head to splice in a section. There is virtually no slack under the lifter side cover to pull up the tubing. If there isn’t room above the head, then remove the lifter side cover and determine if a splice can be located under the cover. The gasket probably is leaking anyway. This requires removing the distributor. Replacing the oil line through the block is a major undertaking, especially soldering the tubing to the fittings in the block to make them water tight. Not easy with the engine in the car.

With regard to the outlet, I’d remove either the front or back rocker arm and the connector should slide off. I’m guessing it could be repaired by brazing unless you can find a replacement with the same threaded connection as yours. Attached is a picture of a later connector (1950] except it has an internal inverted flare connection.

Lastly, with regard to damage, how noisy was the valve train? If the rocker arms and shafts were significantly worn because of lack of oil, I’m guessing you would have heard it.

Couple more thoughts. Notice that the tubing in the picture Russ provided has the inverted flare connector rather external ferrule type shown in your pictures. Also there seems to be more slack than I’m accustomed to. My 41 has the same threaded connection as your 41. Have you tried to pull up on the tubing? If you think the spare connector I have will work, it’s yours. The 1955 parts book says they are all the same, 1937-1952. Mike

If I remember correctly those are what is known as an "olive" joint (with a brass sleeve that fits over the tube and compressed by the nut) so if You can get enough slack in the pipe simply put the nut down the pipe then a new "olive" and tighten it all up. Remove the side cover first so you can seen what spare pipe you have, when it all is nice and tight make sure the pipe does not touch onto anything it goes past
Tony

Thank you for all of the replies. There is not slack in the line. There is enough line above that I might be able to splice it there. As far as valve train noise it has been very quiet. To be honest I was always a little worried it was adjusted wrong or something since I thought it should have been making more noise while running since it did not have hydraulic lifters.

I would prefer to replace the part and have the return line correctly installed. I am a little confused by remove the front or rear rocker arm and it should come off. Does this mean that the bar it is on it not a single solid bar and I just meet to get enough space to slip it off in the middle? Also Am I correct that removing the rocker arm will require a spring compressor.

The rocker arm shaft is two shafts that meet at the oil fitting in the center. They are hollow with holes along the bottom that correspond with each rocker arm. Oil is fed to both rocker shafts through the center fitting. The holes along the bottom are to get oil to the rockers early after starting the engine, before the shafts are full. If your 41 is the same as my 38 you have two "towers" each side of the center that hold the shaft assemblies in place with a bolt that screws in from the top. Remove the bolts and the rocker shafts and rockers will lift right off. Take pictures as you go for reference. Do you have a shop manual? The section covering the rockers starts on 167.

Yes, the rocker shaft assembly is 2 pieces. Even though you do not need to remove the rear section you do need to loosen the mounting bolts for the whole assembly.

There is spring pressure on some of the rocker arms. I typically loosen each bolt about 1 turn initially starting in the middle and working towards the ends equally. Remember that the nuts on the rocker cover studs are fine threads so you will turn them more to get the same movement. This minimizes the bending load on the shafts.

I would encourage you to take everything apart and clean it thoroughly if you have never done that. Take pictures and make notes so you get everything assembled correctly. Pay attention to the spring and orifice in the middle. Remember that the oil holes in the shaft go towards the head.

Hello Mr87Monty,

So the wire on the tube is a "jerry rig fix" to keep things together. That overflow connection is soldered into that brass center piece. Unless a PO got things cleaned up really well so the solder would stick it will probably come loose. Once it broke loose the easiest way to keep oil to the rockers is to just hard wire it together. Those do not have to be leak tight since the purpose is to get oil all over any moving parts up there.

In my opinion the copper line to the rockers broke because it has work hardened and as such should be replaced. This is not that hard of a job. If you do not want to go through that process***, then just remove the side cover and splice another section of copper line to your existing one halfway up under the side cover. All of the tubing, and fittings are readily available from virtually any local Ace Hardware or Farm & Tractor Supply. If you just splice it that might take maybe an hour.

***To totally replace that tube I am thinking you have to drop the pan, and remove the side cover in order to snake that copper tube through the engine and up to the rockers. The brass fittings can be reused, you will just need new ferrules and tubing. It has been a long time since I had to replace one on a full water jacketed engine. Most people do it when they rebuild the engine so it is just part of that job. Often it will wear through where it goes through the block and then leak. On older engines the center head bolt is right under that center oil connection. Occasionally that connection has to be removed. In order to not have that copper tube compression ferrule drop down into the side cover I wrap a small piece of #12 copper wire around that copper tube with a tab sticking out about an inch. That way it will be caught by the wire before it drops down the proverbial rabbit hole.

Let the forum know how it turns out. Other members will have the same or a similar problem.

I did mine years ago and did not drop the pan. I drained the rad & block, removed the old line then starting on either side, feed the new line thru the block until you have just enough to carefully bend the line to hook up to the oil distributor (of course slide the appropriate brass fittings on before bending and blow thru the line in case debris got in it). I did not tighten the fittings at this time. On the pass side slide the brass fittings over the line, get it started but not tight yet. Carefully bend the line (this will be a pretty sharp bend) so it won't hit the side cover when it is installed. Then run it up behind the push rods (be sure no push rods rub the line) and thru the opening in the head. Install brass fittings and hook up to the piece you had wired on (and replaced). Tighten all fittings and you're done. Good luck!
See private msg.

Dick

Thanks for all of the advice. My son and I removed the front rocker shaft and replaced the oiler. There was enough line to make a connection above the head. Started the motor to check if everything worked and after a bit there was oil coming out of the holes in the top of the rockers. Could also see oil going back down the return.

Since the cover was off we let to car run to get the oil to temp to check and adjust the valves. Took a bit to do. Prior to the adjustment the valves were quieter but the engine did not seem to start or idle as well. It ticks now like a watch. We did find several of the valves needed to be tightened.

Did not get the valve cover back on yet. Spent the rest of the night looking at how things work. My oldest was interested in how the cap and rotor worked so we looked at it. Also watched how the rods moved the rockers etc. First time he saw the head open while running. Plan to double check everything and get the cover on next chance we get.

Love it! Great family bonding time. Love that your eldest has the "itch".

To date the car only gets worked on (other than adding gas, oil and air) when I and at least one of the kids are available. I try and let them do most of the work. Often this requires a little extra time but they are learning allot. This time around the oldest was available. Normally the youngest has tended to prefer the mechanical work and my oldest has preferred body and interior work.

Saturday we double checked all of the valve spacing and installed the valve cover gasket. Drove it for about 45 minutes and there were no leaks from the valve cover. Sunday drove it to church and back and again no leaks when we got home. Looks to have been a success.

Also when checking the valves we found several of them needed adjustment. The engine now sounds much better and is more responsive.

Thank you all for the assistance. It is greatly appreciated.