Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


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ertv Offline OP
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The engine of my 1950 Chervrolet Fleetline is mixing oil with water and leaking water from the fuel pump. The engine is running well but the leak is substantial. Can anyone help with finding the source of this leak? If the head gasket is defective, can the engine be running this well? All help is welcome :-)
Here is a video of the engine running: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9B4JimyyaFcboFpG9
here is a video of the leak: https://photos.app.goo.gl/kFWxrePvHZdwydx89

Filling Station - Chevrolet & GMC Reproduction Parts


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What is going on inside the crank case / oil pan? If it is really water coming through the vent hole of the fuel pump its coming from the crank case??? Could be a head gasket or a crack in the head or block. Make sure your oil is not being contaminated with water if you are running the engine. Do a cylinder compression test, see if there are signs of water or significant compression differences. Good luck.

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PULL OUT THE OIL DIP STICK. IS THE OIL OVER FULL, CLOUDY AND LIGHT DRAY, SMELL LIKE Gas? If it is you may have coolant leaking into the oil or a lot of condensation water in the oil.
First I WOULD REMOVE THE FUEL PUMP AND-OR CHANGE THE OIL,


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Hi ertv

The oil on top of the head has a LOT of water in it.
From the color, I'm thinking you don't have antifreeze in it as it doesn't appear gray.
That's good in that antifreeze will QUICKLY destroy a running engine.
It may be bad, because if you have pure water in the cooling system, that may be what has happened here.
Frost.

Are you sure it's water leaking from the fuel pump?
Not gasoline?
If it IS water, that's really strange, and probably not at all good.
Only thing I can think of that would do that is a crack right above the fuel pump dumping water into the crankcase.


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I can't think of any situation where water would be leaking from a fuel pump while an engine is running. If the crankcase is overfull, as a result of coolant leaking into it, it would be a water and oil mix that is coming from the vent hole, not water.
You have water in your oil, for sure, but anything that is clear and leaking from the fuel pump has to be fuel.

Mike


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I really have to agree with Mike.

Water coming out of the fuel pump would be REALLY strange, and would need an almost impossible combination of conditions to be present.

Looks like a fire hazard to me!


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ertv Offline OP
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I think it can only be coming from the crank case, but how does it gen in there? How to check without taking the engine apart?

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ertv Offline OP
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It is definitely water coming out of the vent hole of the fuel pump! Water is getting into the crack case, mixing with oil but some/most of the water is getting out through the vent hole before it has a chance to mix. The main question is where could this substantial leak be coming from? (with the engine running well on even compression)?

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I also noticed that there is no oil going to the rear half of the rocker arm assembly. And there is definitely water mixed in the oil. I would be very cautious about running the engine much more under these conditions.

If that is truly just water coming out the fuel pump vent hole expect that there is a crack in #2 cylinder wall but below where the rings travel. The head gasket is intact. That is why you have good compression and the engine runs as well as it does. The water is coming from the water jacket into that lower cylinder area and into the pan. Some of it is being splashed by the camshaft towards the fuel pump. That water never gets into the crankcase to mix with the oil.

I assume that you are currently running just water.

If my guess is correct you should be able to see the damaged area if you remove the oil pan.


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Hi Rusty

That was my first guess above.
Water is running down the inside of the crankcase from right above the fuel pump, and pooling in the fuel pump housing before it mixes with much oil, and running from there down into the oil pan.
But doesn't that ALSO mean he has to have a leaky seal on the stem of the diaphragm in the fuel pump to let the water out of the hole in the fuel pump?
I don't know how else the water coming out of the fuel pump can be NOT milky.
A highly coincidental combination of ailments if this is what's happening.

And I hope for ertv's sake that it's not.


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update: I have pressurized the radiator with 1.7 bar of pressure and there is no water coming from the vent hole of the fuel pump. The leak only occurs with running engine. I have taken the fuel pump of and looked inside the crack case with an endoscope but I can find no traces of water leak or cracks (but view is limited). The oil level is normal which would indicate that not a lot of water is coming into the crack case. I'm a bit stuck here. Any ideas?

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ertv,

Please confirm that you are running water only in the cooling system. That will help us confirm that the cooling system is the source of the water.

Ole,

This is a strange scenario. That fact that there is no pressure leak-down when the system is pressurized is really interesting.

I wonder if the crack was covered by the piston skirt when he ran that test. I suggest that he pressurize the system again and turn the engine over by hand to see what happens.


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Hi ertv

It appears that you must have several problems here.

I'm thinking you must have a LOT of water in your gas.

You also have a bad DIAPHRAGM in the fuel pump letting the water down into the area in the pump with the vent hole.
You also have a bad SEAL on the diaphragm stem in the pump letting water from there down into the crankcase.
In short, you need to clean up your gas and replace the fuel pump.

You also have no oil going to the rear half of the rocker arms as Rusty pointed out above.
You MUST find that problem and fix it.
Possibly the rear rocker arm shaft has been installed backwards.

You also have a lot of rust in the rocker arm area suggesting the ventilation system isn't working.

Hope this helps.


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Hi Rusty

Got side tracked in the middle of typing the above and you posted while I was away.

I'm beginning to think the source of the water has to be in the gasoline.
But here again it seems highly unlikely.
That much water would have to put enough water into the carburetor to stop running at some point.
And the water and gas should be pretty mixed in the diaphragm area so the leak at the pump should have both water and gas in it.
And I don't see obvious water in the glass bowl.

I think your idea of turning the engine while pressure testing is a good one.


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ertv Offline OP
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Hi guys, thanks for your help. Some backstory: this is a Belgian (Antwerp) built Chevrolet Fleetline from 1950 with 100000km and completely original with full history. The car has been sitting for 25 years and I would like to get it back to running condition. I will take the head of and fix the oil supply to the rocker arms, but for now I'm trying to find the cause of the leak. I will follow your suggestions and turn the engine with the cooling system pressurized. The cooling system has mostly water but also some anti freeze in it. I will also check the gasoline for water and switch fuel pumps. I'll report back with the results.
Thanks for the help.
Eric

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You do not need to remove the head to fix the oil supply to the rocker arms. I expect that there is a blockage going to the rear rocker arm shaft.

The oil supply to the rocker arms is through a tube that passes through the head. You are getting oil to the rocker arms.


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It is a 216 engine and the oil does not come up throgh the head, The oil LINE comes from thr left lower side of the block, passes through the block between #3 and #4 cylinders, The oil line comes out the right side of the center of the block goes and the the line goes through an opening in the head and blcok and then attached to the oiler between the the rocker arm shafts.
Yu can begin by blowing out the oil line from either end.


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ertv Offline OP
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here is another update. I have pressurized the cooling system and it holds pressure for a long time (more than half an hour at 1,7 bar). After a while I noticed some water seeping out from the thread of the oil line (see video https://photos.app.goo.gl/zsUVjZXmZuWFzswU7) but that stops as soon as I release the pressure. I have taken the rocker arm of for cleaning but the oil line seems very tight at the bottom. Does this line go through the water jacket?
thanks, Eric

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So...

You have water in your oil...
Do you have oil in your water?

If no oil in the water, you can probably fix your leak by soldering right where the leak is.
If there IS oil in the water, you will need to replace the complete line, from the left side of the block up through the water jacket and up to the rocker arm connection.

That still doesn't explain the water coming out of the fuel pump though.
Strange that.


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Yes, f you read my post it passes through the block between number 3 and number 4 cylindera.
It passes through the coolant that is between the cylinders and can leak watr into the push rod area.


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Thanks for your input. Is there a procedure I should follow te replace the oil line? Since it is leaking I'm inclined to change the whole line but the fitting at the bottom is very solid and I'm afraid of breaking things. Any suggestions on ho to get it loose?
thanks
Eric

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Hi ertv

IF you do NOT have oil in the water in the cooling system...

I would be inclined to try cleaning up the area where the oil line comes through the fitting (where it is leaking), applying flux, and re soldering just the way it is.

Make sure you drain the water from the system first, including draining the block from the drain on the left side of the block, towards the rear and down low.
Blow everything dry with compressed air to make sure there is no water where you will be soldering.
Apply the heat to the fitting and the area around the fitting.
Don't apply heat directly to the oil line until the fitting is hot enough to melt your solder, and then only if necessary for the solder to flow and bond to the line.

Use an acid core solder.


Looking at your original video again...
It looks like the water is running FORWARD from the leak at the oil line, and before mixing much with the oil, it is draining down the small drain hole which happens to be DIRECTLY above the fuel pump.
I would have said it was impossible for that water to make it's way into the fuel pump and come out the hole in the fuel pump still looking like pure water if I didn't actually see it happening in your videos.

Last edited by Stovblt; 03/21/23 11:18 AM.

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Hi Stovblt

The water flows BACK from the leak at the oil line (due to a small inclination of the engine). Normally the water would reach the drain hole at the back first so I'm still wandering about the leak at the fuel pump....

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After reading the most recent posts in this thread I was thinking about the same thing. Normally the engines in these classic Chevy's have a slight slant to the rear. That is to make sure that any oil lying on the head does drain and to the rear. Plus that inclination helps to slightly reduce the angle in the u-joint.

Unless you know that the oil line through the head is defective I would encourage you to try to solder it as is. If you read other posts about replacing that line you will learn that it can challenging. One issue is trying to get it bent properly after it is inserted through the head. And you still have to seal the new line to the head.


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I just watched the video again. I focused on the first 15 seconds or so. Here are some observations. I do see the both plain water stream plus the watery oil drain into that hole right above the cam shaft. Plus it is appears that your engine is inclined forward. The watery oil mix coming out the rocker arm weep holes is not flowing to the rear of the block.

Possibly that water is working its way forward along the camshaft to the fuel pump.

Here is an interesting simple test. Drain the cooling system completely and run the engine for a couple of minutes. If there is no water at the fuel pump hole then pour some water into that drain hole in the middle of the block. Then check the fuel pump hole.


Rusty

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