Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


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#468524 03/31/22 11:30 AM
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as many know been rebuilding my 1929 Engine, and got it back in the car. tried to start it 2x so far, and something went wrong, starter switch failed, started arcing the starter, burnt up the field coil in starter, had it rebuilt, then found out that it also melted the battery disconnect switch, replaced that. went out last night for fire attempt number 3.

did my once over, and installed battery, and then tried to fire spin the engine to pump gas to the pump, then carb. i primed the oil pump via drill wink. and the thing could barely turn over !! i can crank it by hand and it is a little tight, but i expect that on a freshly rebuilt engine. starter is fine and works great, they tested it and i bench tested it. i had to remove all spark plugs to get the thing to turn over.

so wondering if maybe the battery got fried ? burned out a few cells or something ? it is a Red Top Optima 6v, and this thing usually slings the motor around like there is no tomorrow. it stays on the tender and says it is fully charged, on a meter I get 6.4 v all day.

unfortunately i do NOT have a spare 6v battery around anywhere :( think i will call local auto store and see if they can load test the 6v.

Any other thoughts ?


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Hello BearsFan315,
It is wise to have the battery load tested to rule it out of the issue. A reversed polarity hook-up attempt may have hurt the battery. Try the starter without having the battery disconnect switch in the circuit, less connections that way. Using the recommended size battery cables, verify all connections are secure and clean and checked with meter. Prime oil system again to verify oil pressure and oil to top end (rockers). Fog cylinders with WD40 to keep compression rings from moving dry. With distributor, spark plugs, fan belt all removed (verify in neutral), give the starter a try. (IF) the engine is still not rotating strongly, it's either electrical or mechanical. As you say that hand cranking is little tight (as expected), but does rotate, then suspect and inspect electrical again. Ground battery to all three assemblies (frame/body/engine). Grounds have always been an overlooked detail. Is your starter well grounded to the engine/bell housing, or insulated by fresh paint?

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battery disconnect is not in the circuit
all 00 battery cables, all connections are bare metal to bare metal, oil is primed, oil flowing out of rocker arms, wicks, etc... cylinders are oiled up coated when built, and refogged before attempt.

yes the starter spins engine with the plugs removed, everything else installed and connected. jut really hard with plugs installed.

everything is grounded and as noted 00 bare to bare

when i rebuilt teh car, made sure all electrical paths were bare to bare NO paint.

with out plugs engine spins and oil flows via starter


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loosen the distributor, key off, push starter button by hand, rotate distributor at the same time. I had to do that with a new rebuild until it was in the right position.

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Originally Posted by Smokeman
loosen the distributor, key off, push starter button by hand, rotate distributor at the same time. I had to do that with a new rebuild until it was in the right position.
distributor is fully seated. Perk of hte priming tool i made, i can line up the shafts and drop distributor right in & fully seat :


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Hello Bears,
Still would like to see the battery load tested. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive battery load tester. Now, your saying that the engine turns over using starter with spark plugs removed, but is really hard to rotate with plugs installed. Before or after ruling out the battery as a suspect, give this a try: first verify that you have the correct spark plugs (not hitting pistons). With all spark plugs removed, rotate engine using hand crank. Note effort needed. Next, install only one spark plug (say #1 cylinder). Hand crank engine. Note effort needed. Remove spark plug and install only one spark plug into the next cylinder. Note that effort needed. After doing this procedure for all six cylinders, you should confirm that the required efforts are nearly all the same. If not, you should know which cylinder/cylinders are different. If they all appear to have the same effort uniformly, put the spark plugs in one at a time while hand cranking to feel the cumulative efforts. If able to hand crank with all six spark plugs installed, there should be no reason that the starter should not do the same, unless more is wrong with starter and/or battery. Can you borrow another starter from someone?

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A question for you BearsFan

When you say it cranks slowly with the spark plugs in...
Does it crank slowly but at a constant speed?
Or can you hear it distinctly slowing down every time it rolls over a compression cycle?

If it is the latter, could it be that your engine is "trying" to start but kicking back against the starter due to being too far advanced?
I think that may be where Smokeman was going with his post above.


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Originally Posted by Stovblt
When you say it cranks slowly with the spark plugs in...
Does it crank slowly but at a constant speed?
Or can you hear it distinctly slowing down every time it rolls over a compression cycle?

with all plugs in, the starter can NOT spin through a compression cycle

without plugs it will spin at a medium constant speed


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I'd say borrow the starter from one of your other cars, put it on this one and see if it solves the problem.

Another good idea is to feel each of the connections and the wires/straps immediately after cranking. If a wire or connection is hot, that's likely where a problem exists.

Hope you find the problem soon.

All the Best, Chip


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Did you try a 12 volt boost?


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the previous reply was just to clarify
was out of town all weekend have not messed with the car

Chip, unfortunately the other starter is in the 1930 which is currently in Georgia for a Trade Show
none of the components get hot, one of hte first things i checked after the rebuild and test fire :)


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Hello Bears,
Let's say that you do a bench check of your starter trying all three batteries, old Optima 6, new Optima 6, and the 12 volt, looking at the bendix to measure how far each battery drives the starter gear. I would think that if the starter gear hangs up/fails to retract using the 12 volt that you bottomed out sending starter gear jamming against side of ring gear. See if you can discover any wear marks on the sides of both gears.

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I can do that test when new one arrives

as a side note when the gears lock up, i can NOT crank it by hand, have to loosen up starter and pull it back then put it back in, i can hear the bendix wind back in to rest position.


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In many situations you can put in high gear and rock back and forth to free a stuck starter bendix.


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Originally Posted by Chipper
In many situations you can put in high gear and rock back and forth to free a stuck starter bendix.
yeah works great, but car is in the air :/


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Another option is to remove the lower pan on the clutch housing and use a large screwdriver or pry bar on the flywheel teeth to move the engine backwards. Can move a couple of teeth at a time.


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BearsFan315, I really feel frustrated about this, I have followed your recon of this motor for 12 months or more, I do not think I have ever seen a more thorough and complete job, you have left no stone unturned.
I think this motor is so good that it is excessively tight.
About a dozen years ago I went through a similar process with a flathead Ford V8, and when I got to the end the motor was just too tight to start.
I eventually had to take my block back to the engine reconditioners and have it ‘line bored’ it freed up OK then and it’s been running perfectly to this day.

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Lower the rear axle and then raise one wheel off the ground. Put the tranny in high gear and then rotate the wheel that is off the ground. That should turn the engine over. It should unlock the starter and if you spin the wheel enough it will also loosen the engine.


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Originally Posted by m006840
Lower the rear axle and then raise one wheel off the ground. Put the tranny in high gear and then rotate the wheel that is off the ground. That should turn the engine over. It should unlock the starter and if you spin the wheel enough it will also loosen the engine.

If the engine is too tight for the starter or crank to turn over I would doubt you could turn the wheel to loosen the engine in my humble opinion. Of course there is a remote (snicker) chance that i could be wrong.

Dick

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[quote=I think this motor is so good that it is excessively tight..[/quote]

Years ago after rebuilding my 216 I had the same problem. The old timer that was helping me towed car out to the street. Told me to put it in high gear and one he got us moving to let the clutch out. Did that and the rear wheels just slid and the engine refuse to budge. We tried it again and this time I hit the starter when the wheel slid. It worked and we got it fired up. For quite a while after that, the starter would not turn the engine over when it was warm Had t let it cool down some and then it would start. It's been fine ever since.
My point is the same as Maxinvan's
Dick

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I had the same problem with my 35 when I replaced the Engine. I later adjusted the Rod Bearings as some were too tight. Would have been easier to do before I installed the Engine. Also do NOT use "plastigage". Adjust them until they are tight and not loose. Use a plastic hammer to adjust side to side.


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I had to return a replacement bendix spring that was too too long and caused the gear to not fully retract.


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