VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Body - Sheet Metal, Paint & Wood powdercoating or paint

WELL, HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE. ON CARS BEING RESTORED. NONE OF THEM HAD PARTS THAT WERE POWDERCOATED, AT LEAST NOT THE EARLY ONES, SO IF I POWDERCOAT SOME OF THE PARTS WHICH I THINK ALOT OF THE RESTORERS DO, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS ORIGINAL PARTS PAINTED. THE POINT IS WILL A PERSON BE DEDUCTED POINTS WHEN THE CAR IS JUDGED BECAUSE POWDERCOATING WAS DONE INSTEAD OF PAINTING THE PARTS. I SEE NO DIFFERENCE IN THIS AS TO USING STAINLESS STEEL FASTENERS, WHICH IS JUST USING A DIFFERENT ALLOY IN THE MATERIAL. THANKS :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

It all depends upon the judge. However, under the current VCCA judging, the paint number on the cowl tag is not checked against the color of the paint that is on the car to see if the car actually came from the factory with the color that is currently on the car. And, I don't believe that any points are deducted if the car is painted with enamel when it should be lacquer. Therefore, powder coating should be okay as well. These are some of the issues that should be addressed on future judging forms. :eek: :confused:

JYD, I think maybe there is something like maybe " Paint should not appear too shinny looking or that it should not look too "Modern" meaning? maybe not too many coats of clear coat?or a color that was not available like Candy Apple or Chartruese? some of the chevys in the Anniversery issue are almost too good looking paint jobs to be pre-war colors

My wheels are painted, but given another opportunity I'd have them powder coated next time around.

The reason for this, my car has wire spoke wheels and the powder coating gives extra protection along with the tube bands in regards to the wire spoke ends on the inside of the wheels.

Only recently I came upon a powder coat 'paint' chart and was surprized there is so many colors avaible, than there was a few years back. Blues, Yellow, Greens, Reds. etc etc...just as many as a paint chart.

Going back too your original question of having points deducted, I cant answer, but I know the materials, that was used back in the 1930's and this doesnt include just paint, a restorer has a heck of a time trying to source out, so you just do the best you can.

HI STANDARD34 WELL I HAD ALL SIX OF MY WIRE SPOKE WHEELS POWDERCOATED AND THEY CAME OUT PERFECT. WHEN WE PUT THE TIRES ON, WE DID NOT HAVE ANY CHIPS OR MARKS ON THE POWDERCOATING. THERE IS ANY COLOR YOU WANT COMPARED TO JUST THREE YEARS AGO, WHEN THERE WAS ONLY A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COLORS ON THE MARKET.IN MY OPINION THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO WHEELS. I PAID 200 DOLLARS TO HAVE ALL SIX WHEELS POWDERCOATED. THANKS DON :) :) :) :)

http://www.rainbowrpb.com/ralchart.html
I think the link will work. I done a bit of a search on powder coating colors and this link showed quiet a range of what can be chosen from.

Reflecting on what Junkyard said; One could have a original car in top condition, but nine times out of ten, the car that arrives with brand new paint job, new chrome, new this, new that etc wins hands down on most occasions.
As he said, a lot has to do with the judges personal choice or knowing what was relevant for each year model.

JYD, THE COWL TAG PAINT CODE AND THE COLOR OF THE CAR DON'T HAVE TO MATCH? IS THIS THE POLICY OF THE VCCA? HOW ABOUT THE AACA? I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH CARS FROM THE 50'S THAT CHANGE (OR WANT TO CHANGE) THE COWL TAG SO THEY CAN GET THE COLOR (OR OPTIONS) THEY WANT WITHOUT LOSING POINTS AT MEETS (CLASSIC CHEVY CLUB). THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE VERY UPSET ABOUT COMPANIES MAKING THESE "NEW" OLD TAGS AND CONSIDER THIS "UNETHICAL". IT HAS BEEN A "HOT" TOPIC FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW. HOW CAN YOU HAVE AN ORGINAL CAR AND NOT HAVE THE ORGINAL COLOR ON THE CAR? AND HOW CAN IT BE ORGINAL WITH A DIFFERENT COWL TAG? THANKS, GATOR

I agree! The cowl tag information should match what is on the car, including the paint number specifically. That is what the factory information is there for to describe what trim was used in the car and what color or colors the car was painted when it came from the factory. Most clubs, including the Classic Chevy Club (as you mentioned) do recognize and use that valuable information for judging purposes as an aid to keep the car as it was when it came from the factory. However, the VCCA doesn't recognize the cowl tag in the judging process. As long as the car is painted a correct color for the year then that is acceptable during VCCA judging in most cases.

On the cowl tag, and VIN plates, I think that they are a good reproduction tool to use during the restoration process, particularly if the VIN plate is missing (and most are on the wood bodied jobs) and the owner duplicates the original VIN for the car. There are pro's and con's on the cowl tag replacement however. If the owner changes the color of his car to another 1932 color (I see way too many maroon cars at shows that were never maroon) and changes the cowl tag to match, then, I guess theoretically, the car is no longer original. However, some cars have been converted to a different model and the cowl tag has been changed to match, and I can see where that would create a major problem during judging...that is if the cowl tag information were used. :eek: :eek:

Going back to the topic heading - powder Coating or paint. Can anyone tell us if they have powdercoated wheels, and if they have a lot of trouble getting tar spots off?

The other day I noticed tar spotting on my painted wheels and I had a cow of a time trying to shift them, and thought I wonder with powder coated wheels would the tar come off easier?

HIGH STANDARD 34. I HAVE SIX POWDERCOATED WHEELS, AND A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WHO DOES POWDERCOATING SAYS THAT YOU CAN USE STRONG CLEANERS ON THE WHEELS WITHOUT HURTING THE POWDERCOATING, AND SHOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE GETTING THE COW,OR OH I MEAN THE TAR OFF YOUR WHEELS WHEN YOU HAVE THEM POWDERCOATED. MY WHEELS HAVE BEEN DONE FIVE YEARS AND THEY ARE VERY EASY TO MAINTAIN. GOOD LUCK :) :) :) :)

I think that the key is does it appear as original not what system was used. Since the fenders, running boards, splash aprons were dipped and except for a few industrial or commercial companies dipping is no longer done; the original process and product are not used on them. I find that it is very difficult to tell what paint system was used in many cases. Yes the clear coated paint jobs are fairly easy to tell particularly if more than one clear coat is applied. If only one clear coat is applied and then it is wet sanded and buffed it is nearly impossible to tell it from lacquer. Try to tell acrylic lacquer from nitrocellulose without scratching it or waiting for the cracks to appear.

Originally Chevrolets were brush painted and then sanded and hand polished. Then nitrocellulose lacquer was sprayed, sanded and hand polished. The smoothness of the surface depended on the workers and inspectors on the line. Trucks used enamel not lacquer.

Later acrylic lacquer and reflow solvents and ovens eliminated the need to polish. Each has its advantages but the key was faster and less costly finishes. Duplicating the original process and/or surface is very difficult to impossible. That is part of what makes paint different from nuts and bolts.

I agree with JYD (don't faint) that the vehicle should be judged based on what was original to that vehicle. That would include accessories!!!
The problem with judging to that standard is determining what was originally on the vehicle. Therefore it comes back to the interpretation of the judge. Just like Dog Shows (How would the JYD stack up?) it is up to the discression of the judge.

Just another FYI, powdercoating is a supurb way to go on parts that are not exposed to extreme sunlight. It seems that the UV light will break down the pigments in the powder, alot faster than automotive grade enamels. I have had numerous sets of wheels done over the past 8 or nine years, and I agree they are more cost effective to have done, they take tires without chipping, but we have had to re-do several sets that have failed due to the UV breakdown.
The fellow that does our media blasting has also observed that industrial panels and boxes that were powdercoated, and than placed in out side service, tend to fail in 3 to 5 years.
So, factor that into your decision as to powder coat verses paint.

More updates....
I just had a neighbor ask me to give him a bid on sandblasting and repainting his patio furniture set. He brought me the original paperwork touting the durability of the powdercoated finish. He can't remember exactly how long he has owned the set, but figures no more than 6 or 7 years. And of course it has been outside in all the Utah weather year round. The finish has faded and even leaves a powdery residue on your hands when you touch it. Some the edges of the expanded metal is even rusting.

Again, I like powdercoating, but be aware that it is not a maintainence free finish. And UV rays will cause it to fail over time. Just as with any finishing materials, you have to know the strengths and limitations of each product. I am just trying to inform everyone of the weaknesses I have observed. And perhaps the newer products are improved over the early versions, but I guess only time will tell.