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I recently converted my 53 210 to 12 volts. On occasion the starter drive will grind instead of engaging. The starter is still six volt and has just a few miles on it. It never failed to engage before the conversion so that likely has something to do with the issue. I need ideas as what to look at. The starter is a new NAPA unit about two months old. 9 out of 10 times it'll start normally with no grinding. The guy at the parts house says I need a new starter because the bendix is bad but it's already a new starter. I bought a 12v solenoid that I can install if necessary. Ideas?

I’ve converted a number to 12 volts and seen the problem a few times and I think it may be that the starter spins faster and that lends to the problem.

Is there anything I can to do stop it short of putting a 12v starter on the car?

Tiny, install the 12V solenoid. Good chance that will help the issue. If it's spec'ed for a '55 235, it will bolt to the 6V starter without issue. The pull-in force should be correct and reduce the clash.

Doug

The solenoid arrives today. If that doesn't fix the issue and I end up having to put a 12v starter on the car, will all 235 12v starters be a direct bolt up? If not what years do I need to look for?

55-56 starter for 235 will work, but only if you replace the flywheel or flexplate from a 12V 55-62 235. The number of teeth are different.

Tiny, (as DrTyler said) the 12V starter will physically bolt up, but the drive gear will be incorrect for the original 139-tooth ring gear. The 12V cars, starting in '55, use a 168 tooth ring gear on the flywheel/flexplate. Using a 12V starter with the original 139-tooth flywheel/flexplate will damage both ring and starter drive gears. Unfortunately, the starter drive gears are not interchangeable between the 6V and 12V starters.

The "fix" needed to use a 12V starter is to swap flywheel/flexplate to a later unit, or have the 6V starter re-coiled/rebuilt for 12V (if you can locate a local-to-you auto electric shop that will do it). If I recall, there may be aftermarket 12V starters that are specifically made to be compatible with the 139-tooth ring gear, although it's been some time since I've seen one advertised.

All that said, unless the engine is already out so that a flywheel swap isn't a major undertaking, my normal suggestion for 12V conversion is to use a known-good/rebuilt 6V starter with a 12V solenoid, keeping the stock 139-tooth ring gear. Your current plan to do that sounds good, but...

Since you have had issues, it's probably a good idea to consider pulling the starter and inspecting both ring gear and starter drive gear when the new solenoid arrives. If either are damaged, the new solenoid won't solve the issue, of course. Keep in mind, these engines will normally stop rotation when shut down in one of just a few positions, so that ring gear wear may be in a limited area (or few areas). It's a bit of a pain, but it's best if ring gear inspection is done 360 degrees, as a result.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Doug

That helps a bunch guys. I'm hoping the solenoid fixes the issue. The starter is a new 6v NAPA unit and it never once clashed until the conversion to 12v so I'm hoping there's no damage. Thanks again.

OK, the solenoid is here but now an additional question. Below are pics of my current six volt solenoid and the new 12v. The six has three connections and the 12v four. The 12v has two small lugs labeled S and R. The 6v has a single small lug labeled S and while there's an R cast into the end there's no lug. That one should be a simple wire swap from S to S but do I just leave the R lug empty? (what does the R stand for anyway???) The two large lugs are Battery and Ground but the orientation is different so I need to verify which is which because neither are labeled. The lugs are the same size on the 6v but the top lug on the 12v is larger than the bottom lug. I'm assuming the top lug on the 12v is Battery and the bottom is Ground. Am I correct?

Tiny: I know you've probably thought of this. But pull up a '55 or later wiring diagram and see what it sez. By the way, I know why you are having all these starter problems. Just look at how "clean" that solenoid looks in the picture you posted. What kind of farm did you grow on, anyway? All farmers know that machinery needs a "light surface coating of dust/dirt/grease" to work properly.

It's only clean because it's new. I think I found my answer: http://chevynova.ca/raymcavoy/starters.html

Tiny, yes, the diagram you found has the answer. The R terminal is used in the 12V system to provide a temporary bypass of the ballast resistor (which is not used in the 6V system, of course), applying full voltage to the coil for starting, only. New wire from R to + terminal of the coil, and that is all set. On a vehicle driven only in good weather, it can generally be omitted unless there is a hard-starting issue noted.

Cheers!

Doug

I finally got the 6v solenoid off, an experience that does NOT endear me to the engineers that designed that setup. They either had fingers that bent the wrong way or hands the size of a five year old or both. The 12v solenoid is not a direct bolt up. Only the front two holes will line up. The distance center to center of the holes on the 12v is 1 3/8" while the 6v is 1 3/4". I think I can make it work by using flat washers under the aft bolt heads to ride on top of the solenoid mounting flange. The act of pulling the starter drive into the ring gear would put upward pressure on the forward bolts which are the bolts that fit. It appears the aft bolts don't do much anyway. Guidance from someone who's actually done this successfully would be appreciated. I'd like to get this project finished before the turn of the next century.....

Tiny, I've done it... but not recently, and didn't have a bolt line up issue. Was the 12V solenoid specifically ID'ed for a '55 235? Later years don't bolt up.

With parts in hand, if the washers don't allow a secure fit, it should be easy to fab a sheet metal, u-shaped tab that would clamp down on the solenoid flange, covering all 4 starter/6V solenoid bolt positions for bolt-down. That would pick up the forward bolts through the solenoid flange, and perhaps be more solid over the aft of the flange. Hope that makes sense. That would be my best suggestion for the solenoid in hand, long distance.

Doug

It's the Standard SS201 which the vendors call out for the 55 & 56 235. I dug out my original starter that I replaced with the new NAPA unit and it's 1 3/4" center to center also so that's the OEM fitment. It's muggy as the dickens outside today but I'll try to get out to the garage this morning & see how far I get.

Tiny, after some digging through old parts books, mystery solved. It's been bugging me that what I recalled as a direct bolt-on seemed to no longer be the case.

I'll lay out the story in a minute, but the bottom line is that Standard SS-201 is not the right fitment (as you know), but Standard SS-748 is the correct 12V solenoid that will bolt to the 6V starter. The SS-748 is dimensionally the same as the 6V solenoid. Note that the terminals are rotated about 90 deg clockwise, so the starter's high current lead to the solenoid has to reroute to the left just a bit, but should fit.

I snagged an SS-748 at a local O'Reilly's this morning, so I could do a direct comparison, photos below.

Confirming from two copies of the Chevy Parts & Accessories catalogs ('29-'58 and '38-'68 coverage), the original '55-'56 12V solenoid for the 235 was Delco PN 1119789. If that number is entered into NAPA's online website, it brings up two Echlin P/Ns, ST100 or ST112. The ST100 cross-references to the Standard SS-201. Wrong one for bolting to the 6V starter. The ST112 cross-references to the SS-748, which has correct fitment/dimensions.

The thing I don't understand, but speculate is due to parts (starter) supersession, is that the current parts books show only the ST100/SS-201 if a '55-'56 Chevy is used as the starting point for a search. Even more odd, I suppose, the current parts books show the SS-748 as only correct for '56 GMC PM models.

Regardless, the photos show the comparison. The 6V solenoid is an NOS Delco 1118135 that I had in my spare parts stash. It was the original fitment for '49-'54 passenger cars (and some trucks), and superseded by 1114310. Mount, plunger bore diameter and plunger bore depth were compared favorably to the SS-748.

I'm a bit late to your party with the info, unfortunately, but hope it helps.

Doug

Thank you for going the extra mile for me. I'll check out the SS748.

You are welcome. FWIW, around here, the SS-748 is about $20 cheaper than the SS-201. Go figure!

Cheers!

Doug

I was shocked at the price of the 201 I bought. Since I have it on I'm going to try it before making another purchase. The connection layout is the same between the 201 and 278. If it all works well when I put juice to it later today I'll pick up a 278 for a spare. Thanks again, that cleared some of the fog.

748... just sayin'.

Glad to help (I hope it helps!).

Doug

Doh! It is said that to error is human. I'm constantly proving I'm a human being......

Just got it finished up. Four test starts and so far no issues. Keeping my fingers crossed. Even with the 748 there would have been some tinkering to do because of the different connector positioning so I can't really say it's a direct bolt on swap but it's doable. THANK YOU!

A final follow up. The solenoid seems to have been the issue. A couple of days and numerous starts later & I've not had a single clash of the starter and ring gear. Sure hope I'm not jinxing myself. I WILL be picking up a 748 solenoid to keep in the trunk for a spare. As a side note I'd forgotten how loud six volt horns are on 12 volts.

That sounds great. Thanks for the update.

Yes, my friend’s ”˜49 truck horn is really loud on 12 volts. If you do the math you realize that the horn is operating at 4 times the energy compared to operating at 6 volts.

Tiny, Glad to hear its working out.

Best!

Doug