VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 37 Master Deluxe Town Sedan with 216 CID Inline Six

My first vintage car in 50 plus years and my goal is to do it no harm. I want to get the fluids correct for this 216 six cylinder overhead valve engine with 3 speed manual transmission, hydraulic brakes and DuBonnet trailing arm front suspension system. I purchased the car through a broker but was told the previous owner used Havoline 30 weight non detergent oil from O'Reillys. I went to O'Reilly's today to be told by the young counter person that he'd never heard of Havoline but the older guy chimed in that they quit selling it a couple years ago.

As an alternative, I was considering NAPA Motor Oil 30W Non-Detergent and was looking for an opinion on it or other choices.

Since I am asking, what would be a good choice for topping up the DuBonnett suspension that has a minor leak on each side and should the radiator be filled with only water or some sort of antifreeze solution.

Thanks

I use 15w40 detergent oil in my 38 and 53. Some use 10W30. Straight 30 is OK in the summer. Can't help with the suspension but someone who can will be along soon. Straight water is not good. Normal 50/50 antifreeze is what you want. Welcome to VCCA Chat. You came to the right place. You might consider joining the club and bringing your 37 on some tours. We have lots of members in your neck of the woods.

Most guys here use 10w-30 in cars with dipper oiling for the connecting rods. That oiling systwm uses an oil mist for lubricating cylinder walls and wrist pins.
You can use hydraulic jack oil or automatic trans. f luid in the knee actin.....if they have not been rebuilt recently they will probably leak.

There is no such thing as 30W oil. the w is for winter and #30 is not a winter oil and is not rated for use under 40 degrees.

Havoline ol was Texacos best oil many years ago. There is Valvoline and they make NAPA oil.

As far as I know, this is an engine with 65k original miles. The broker recommended I use non detergent oil and I was told that the owner used Havoline 30w motor oil.

Sounds like a good compromise for year round would be a 10w30 and if so, the question remains detergent or non-detergent?
If I suddenly introduced a detergent where it hadn't been before would it cause other problems? There is no oil filter.

Detergent oil will not loosen any of the build-up in the engine. Detergent oils prevent the formation of build-up.

The 10w-30 will work great on your engine. A key advantage compared to straight 30 weight is that it flows better when starting the engine and as it warms up.

Detergent will not clean up a dirty engine. Itwould not be ncommon for a 1937 engine to be overhualed twice at 65,000 miles due to use of the old oils thst had no detergent or other modern additives.
The oil recommedded by Chevrolet in 1937 was #10 in the winter and
#20 in summer. #30 for hot weather like above 90 Deg and high speed driving.

It may be a good idea to get a oil pan gasket set and drop the pan to have a look around. It will give you a chance to clean the sludge out of the pan and check things out. The 46-48 section has a permanent post with good info on how to put the gasket and pan back together.

Welcome, hope you enjoy your new old car!

Dave

Send the missus or girlfriend to Walmart.

Tell her to buy 5 quarts of 10w30. Tell her to buy the cheapest brand that the circle on the back matches the other major brands.

Tell her to get a bottle of jack oil for the shocks.

She can ask a clerk for location of the stuff but to not listen to him about more expensive oil. She won't listen to him. Walmart brand oil will be just fine as long as the circle information matches.

The reason for sending her is that you will listen to the clerk and end up with the most expensive oil and walk out with a cart full of $$$ items you don't really need. Will too!

Good luck,

Charlie

I'm trying my best to search the forum for answers before asking a question but I get too many references that seem unrelated to my specific question . . . .

So my question is : Assuming the current brake fluid is still of an original type, what Brake fluid should I use to top up the system for the 1937 master deluxe sedan?
I may want to service \ rebuild the brake system eventually but want to keep it going for now.

You want Dot 3 brake fluid

I had grabbed Prestone 3 dot but when I realized it was Synthetic I questioned using. I assume 3 dot but not synthetic is what is called for.

Brake fluid is all a blend of manufactured chemicals. In modern terms that is considered synthetic.

Thanks for that clarification Chipper. I agree that the use of the word “synthetic” on the label is as much for marketing purposes as any other reason.

A key requirement for a brake fluid is for it to be compatible across multiple brands. In addition, all DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 brake fluids are compatible. The boiling point will change if they are mixed but the mixture will function just fine as brake fluid.

Just remember that DOT 5 brake fluids are unique and not compatible with the others.

I knew dot 3 and 4 would mix quite happily but reduced to dot3 boiling point but I wouldnt put any dot5? into that mix.
Dot 3 and 4 are both hydroscopic (absorbs moisture) from the air is why everyone says a "from a sealed container" and modern systems do not have ventilated reseviour. With this in mind with open topped (most early cars, prior to 1975) it is recommended to change the fluid each year
Tony

Good point Tony.

Note that I stated the DOT 5.1 (glycol based) is compatible with DOT 3 and 4. I agree 100% that you do not want DOT 5 (silicone based) in that mix.

Why they ever decide to labeled the high temperature glycol brake fluid as 5.1 is beyond me. It sure confuses the compatibility issue.

I havent seen or or had anything do with 5 or 5.1 so I would classify it as not compatible and not use to err on safety. How many of us are going to be using the brakes that hard anyway, most of us would have no problem using water for brake fluid.
Tony

A couple more lubrication questions :

Any recommendations for topping up the slowly leaking Dubonnet Shocks?
- The car came with a partial container of Mobil DTE Oil Heavy Medium non-detergent ISO 68 (SAE 20) lubricant. Use or replace it with?
- What tool / device to top up the lubricant?

Large Oil Bath Air Cleaner
- What type of oil to use after cleaning it with gasoline?
- Can the wire mesh be replaced and if so with what?
- Replacement lid gasket available?

Terry

If I remember right the manual says 50 weight oil in the air cleaner. Any oil will work. I believe all vendors sell replacement copper gauze. As for a gasket?????

The knees require a very light body hydraulic fluid. The original oil can be replaced with hydraulic jack oil. The "thicker" the oil the harder the ride, especially in cold weather. None of the oils will harm the unit.
You can try tightening the large packing nut on the side of the knee where the large amm comes out Losse set screw first,
To top off remove the small pipe plug on top....not tge large cap.

I have now joined the VCCA and managed to add a photo of my car. Thanks for everyone's input so far.

My next question(s) regard the 216 tune-up . . . . .

I with lots of help from my senior long time retired mechanic friend installed New :
- Plugs R43S as before and gapped to .040 as per shop manual.
- Napa Belden spark plug wire set.
- Ignition points (setting to .018) as per shop manual as best we could determine with a feeler gauge.
- Distributor cap, rotor and condenser.

We initially retarded the engine using the Octane selector to get the steel ball in the flywheel center while using the timing light. Dwell meter indicated 39 degrees.
It started much better but during the road test it was having problems accelerating as high speed. It would accelerate ok up to a certain point in each gear but had nothing at full power.
We pulled over and returned the Octane selector back to the middle as it was originally but it made no difference.

I can't find a schematic of a distributer for this engine so I will describe it best as I can. Can we post photos in our postings? Anyway . . . . out the side towards the bottom of the distributor unit and above the octane selector is a metal silver cup. We tried to turn it initially one way or the other but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe this is the root of our problem. What is it and what does it do?

What are the correct settings for the spark plugs and the points for initial gap & dwell meter reading?

Please enlighten me as to what's going on and why.

It looks like you have the correct initial settings, .040 and .018.

You will get better advice soon but a couple of questions;

The R43S plugs are a couple of heat ranges colder than what is normally recommended. Is there a reason you went with these?

Are the NAPA plug wires solid wire or fiber suppression wires?

A picture of the silver cup would help me but my first thought is grease cup.

Dave

I think Dave is correct on initial settings though my foggy memory recalls 36deg dwell is common for 6 cyl engines. By your description I am also thinking you are adjusting the grease cap not the octane selector.
Tony

Throw the timing light away. Or at least put it on a high shelf and forget it's there. The ignition specs for that car were set for LOW octane fuel. Put your octane selector on 0, start your car and let it warm up, adjust the timing to the highest/smoothest idle and lock it down. Readjust your idle speed at the carburetor. If it pings a bit under load or drags the starter use the octane selector to retard it a degree at a time until perfect. FWIW I've never had to retard mine. Do that and you'll be amazed at how hard it pulls top end. I don't remember the last time I used my timing light.

Did the points come with a ground spring and a seperate point tension spring and the tension spring was not used causing the point arm to float at higher engine speed.

Sounds like the vacuum advance isn’t working.