My first vintage car in 50 plus years and my goal is to do it no harm. I want to get the fluids correct for this 216 six cylinder overhead valve engine with 3 speed manual transmission, hydraulic brakes and DuBonnet trailing arm front suspension system. I purchased the car through a broker but was told the previous owner used Havoline 30 weight non detergent oil from O'Reillys. I went to O'Reilly's today to be told by the young counter person that he'd never heard of Havoline but the older guy chimed in that they quit selling it a couple years ago.

As an alternative, I was considering NAPA Motor Oil 30W Non-Detergent and was looking for an opinion on it or other choices.

Since I am asking, what would be a good choice for topping up the DuBonnett suspension that has a minor leak on each side and should the radiator be filled with only water or some sort of antifreeze solution.

Thanks

I use 15w40 detergent oil in my 38 and 53. Some use 10W30. Straight 30 is OK in the summer. Can't help with the suspension but someone who can will be along soon. Straight water is not good. Normal 50/50 antifreeze is what you want. Welcome to VCCA Chat. You came to the right place. You might consider joining the club and bringing your 37 on some tours. We have lots of members in your neck of the woods.

Most guys here use 10w-30 in cars with dipper oiling for the connecting rods. That oiling systwm uses an oil mist for lubricating cylinder walls and wrist pins.
You can use hydraulic jack oil or automatic trans. f luid in the knee actin.....if they have not been rebuilt recently they will probably leak.

There is no such thing as 30W oil. the w is for winter and #30 is not a winter oil and is not rated for use under 40 degrees.

Havoline ol was Texacos best oil many years ago. There is Valvoline and they make NAPA oil.

As far as I know, this is an engine with 65k original miles. The broker recommended I use non detergent oil and I was told that the owner used Havoline 30w motor oil.

Sounds like a good compromise for year round would be a 10w30 and if so, the question remains detergent or non-detergent?
If I suddenly introduced a detergent where it hadn't been before would it cause other problems? There is no oil filter.

Detergent oil will not loosen any of the build-up in the engine. Detergent oils prevent the formation of build-up.

The 10w-30 will work great on your engine. A key advantage compared to straight 30 weight is that it flows better when starting the engine and as it warms up.

Detergent will not clean up a dirty engine. Itwould not be ncommon for a 1937 engine to be overhualed twice at 65,000 miles due to use of the old oils thst had no detergent or other modern additives.
The oil recommedded by Chevrolet in 1937 was #10 in the winter and
#20 in summer. #30 for hot weather like above 90 Deg and high speed driving.

It may be a good idea to get a oil pan gasket set and drop the pan to have a look around. It will give you a chance to clean the sludge out of the pan and check things out. The 46-48 section has a permanent post with good info on how to put the gasket and pan back together.

Welcome, hope you enjoy your new old car!

Dave

Send the missus or girlfriend to Walmart.

Tell her to buy 5 quarts of 10w30. Tell her to buy the cheapest brand that the circle on the back matches the other major brands.

Tell her to get a bottle of jack oil for the shocks.

She can ask a clerk for location of the stuff but to not listen to him about more expensive oil. She won't listen to him. Walmart brand oil will be just fine as long as the circle information matches.

The reason for sending her is that you will listen to the clerk and end up with the most expensive oil and walk out with a cart full of $$$ items you don't really need. Will too!

Good luck,

Charlie

I'm trying my best to search the forum for answers before asking a question but I get too many references that seem unrelated to my specific question . . . .

So my question is : Assuming the current brake fluid is still of an original type, what Brake fluid should I use to top up the system for the 1937 master deluxe sedan?
I may want to service \ rebuild the brake system eventually but want to keep it going for now.

You want Dot 3 brake fluid

I had grabbed Prestone 3 dot but when I realized it was Synthetic I questioned using. I assume 3 dot but not synthetic is what is called for.

Brake fluid is all a blend of manufactured chemicals. In modern terms that is considered synthetic.

Thanks for that clarification Chipper. I agree that the use of the word “synthetic” on the label is as much for marketing purposes as any other reason.

A key requirement for a brake fluid is for it to be compatible across multiple brands. In addition, all DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 brake fluids are compatible. The boiling point will change if they are mixed but the mixture will function just fine as brake fluid.

Just remember that DOT 5 brake fluids are unique and not compatible with the others.

I knew dot 3 and 4 would mix quite happily but reduced to dot3 boiling point but I wouldnt put any dot5? into that mix.
Dot 3 and 4 are both hydroscopic (absorbs moisture) from the air is why everyone says a "from a sealed container" and modern systems do not have ventilated reseviour. With this in mind with open topped (most early cars, prior to 1975) it is recommended to change the fluid each year
Tony

Good point Tony.

Note that I stated the DOT 5.1 (glycol based) is compatible with DOT 3 and 4. I agree 100% that you do not want DOT 5 (silicone based) in that mix.

Why they ever decide to labeled the high temperature glycol brake fluid as 5.1 is beyond me. It sure confuses the compatibility issue.

I havent seen or or had anything do with 5 or 5.1 so I would classify it as not compatible and not use to err on safety. How many of us are going to be using the brakes that hard anyway, most of us would have no problem using water for brake fluid.
Tony

A couple more lubrication questions :

Any recommendations for topping up the slowly leaking Dubonnet Shocks?
- The car came with a partial container of Mobil DTE Oil Heavy Medium non-detergent ISO 68 (SAE 20) lubricant. Use or replace it with?
- What tool / device to top up the lubricant?

Large Oil Bath Air Cleaner
- What type of oil to use after cleaning it with gasoline?
- Can the wire mesh be replaced and if so with what?
- Replacement lid gasket available?

Terry

If I remember right the manual says 50 weight oil in the air cleaner. Any oil will work. I believe all vendors sell replacement copper gauze. As for a gasket?????

The knees require a very light body hydraulic fluid. The original oil can be replaced with hydraulic jack oil. The "thicker" the oil the harder the ride, especially in cold weather. None of the oils will harm the unit.
You can try tightening the large packing nut on the side of the knee where the large amm comes out Losse set screw first,
To top off remove the small pipe plug on top....not tge large cap.

I have now joined the VCCA and managed to add a photo of my car. Thanks for everyone's input so far.

My next question(s) regard the 216 tune-up . . . . .

I with lots of help from my senior long time retired mechanic friend installed New :
- Plugs R43S as before and gapped to .040 as per shop manual.
- Napa Belden spark plug wire set.
- Ignition points (setting to .018) as per shop manual as best we could determine with a feeler gauge.
- Distributor cap, rotor and condenser.

We initially retarded the engine using the Octane selector to get the steel ball in the flywheel center while using the timing light. Dwell meter indicated 39 degrees.
It started much better but during the road test it was having problems accelerating as high speed. It would accelerate ok up to a certain point in each gear but had nothing at full power.
We pulled over and returned the Octane selector back to the middle as it was originally but it made no difference.

I can't find a schematic of a distributer for this engine so I will describe it best as I can. Can we post photos in our postings? Anyway . . . . out the side towards the bottom of the distributor unit and above the octane selector is a metal silver cup. We tried to turn it initially one way or the other but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe this is the root of our problem. What is it and what does it do?

What are the correct settings for the spark plugs and the points for initial gap & dwell meter reading?

Please enlighten me as to what's going on and why.

It looks like you have the correct initial settings, .040 and .018.

You will get better advice soon but a couple of questions;

The R43S plugs are a couple of heat ranges colder than what is normally recommended. Is there a reason you went with these?

Are the NAPA plug wires solid wire or fiber suppression wires?

A picture of the silver cup would help me but my first thought is grease cup.

Dave

I think Dave is correct on initial settings though my foggy memory recalls 36deg dwell is common for 6 cyl engines. By your description I am also thinking you are adjusting the grease cap not the octane selector.
Tony

Throw the timing light away. Or at least put it on a high shelf and forget it's there. The ignition specs for that car were set for LOW octane fuel. Put your octane selector on 0, start your car and let it warm up, adjust the timing to the highest/smoothest idle and lock it down. Readjust your idle speed at the carburetor. If it pings a bit under load or drags the starter use the octane selector to retard it a degree at a time until perfect. FWIW I've never had to retard mine. Do that and you'll be amazed at how hard it pulls top end. I don't remember the last time I used my timing light.

Did the points come with a ground spring and a seperate point tension spring and the tension spring was not used causing the point arm to float at higher engine speed.

Sounds like the vacuum advance isn’t working.

I agree that the silver cup is the grease cup. It has nothing to do with timing or point gap.

You fill the cup with grease and screw it on until you feel resistance. Then turn it a little more. The owner’s manual says to give it a turn every 1000 miles.

I agree that the RC 43’s are a colder plug, especially for the way we drive these old cars. Even as my daily driver I bet my car engine never runs more than 1/2 hour without being turned off. So a hotter plug really makes them run better.

I suggest that you start your timing adjustment with the octane selector set to “0”. Then loosen the screw that clamps the distributor to the bracket and turn the distributor like Tiny describes. Then you can make you fine tuning with the octane selector.

If your vacuum advance is working you should see the distributor rotate when you open the throttle.

As per Dave:
It looks like you have the correct initial settings, .040 and .018.
The R43S plugs are a couple of heat ranges colder than what is normally recommended. Is there a reason you went with these?
- Went with R43S because that’s what was there previously.
- What plugs would you recommend?
Are the NAPA plug wires solid wire or fiber suppression wires?
- Napa says fiber suppression wires.
A picture of the silver cup would help me but my first thought is grease cup.
- Taking pictures no problem but not clear how to post them yet.
- I kept turning the silver cup & discovered grease inside.

As per Tony:
I think Dave is correct on initial settings though my foggy memory recalls 36deg dwell is common for 6 cyl engines.
By your description I am also thinking you are adjusting the grease cap not the octane selector.
- We were adjusting the octane selector and also as it turns out the grease cup.

As per Tiny:
Throw the timing light away. Or at least put it on a high shelf and forget it's there. The ignition specs for that car were set for LOW octane fuel. Put your octane selector on 0, start your car and let it warm up, adjust the timing to the highest/smoothest idle and lock it down. Readjust your idle speed at the carburetor. If it pings a bit under load or drags the starter use the octane selector to retard it a degree at a time until perfect. FWIW I've never had to retard mine. Do that and you'll be amazed at how hard it pulls top end. I don't remember the last time I used my timing light.

As per Gene:
Did the points come with a ground spring and a separate point tension spring and the tension spring was not used causing the point arm to float at higher engine speed.
-The points came with a curved silver spring and as there were no instructions we left it spare as we weren’t sure what to do with it.

As per Randy:
Sounds like the vacuum advance isn’t working.
- I am assured that the vacuum was working as designed.

My mechanic friend is dropping by tomorrow and we are having another go. His thoughts after mulling it overnight was maybe the new condenser is not working correctly. I will share your advice with him and thank you all for it.

Terry

Chevrolet Parts - 1933-1962 CAR/TRUCK AC #R45 SPARK PLUG
R45 $3.25 EA
CHEVROLET 1933-1962 CAR/TRUCK AC #R45 SPARK PLUG
These 14mm AC spark plugs fit Chevrolet & GMC cars & trucks from 1933-1940 and then were used again from 1949-1962 (for 1941-48 see M8). Works both in the 6 cylinder and V8 engines. The "R" letter on the spark plug means it is a resistor type which is a replacement plug for the original. Replaces AC #44, #45, #46, GM# 1559494. Made in the USA!
https://store.fillingstation.com

Successful tune-up after the following changes :
- We installed the point tension spring that we had excluded previously.
- The Ac Delco R43S spark plugs were replaced by R45's.
- I could not convince my mechanic friend to throw out the timing light. To get the steel ball to line up with the pointer, the Octane Selector was moved four notches in the retarded direction.

I appreciate all the input and hope you will continue to share information regardless if we use it. I'm sorry to keep asking for information but every time I search the forum I get 200 or more items and without an answer to my specific questions.

Lubrication mentioned in the shop manual isn't specific enough for me so I'd like to ask . . . . .
**what specifically do you use for the Master Deluxe Models Knee Action when manual states "FRONT SPRING UNIT - KEEP FILLED WITH GENUINE SHOCK INSULATION FLUID" ?

for the Master Deluxe Models Knee Action when manual states "FRONT SPRING UNIT - KEEP FILLED WITH GENUINE SHOCK INSULATION FLUID"

Looking back I see Chev Nut said "You can use hydraulic jack oil or automatic trans."

Can you give me some specific product examples?

Looking around I see all sorts to name a few :
- Bar's Leaks Jack Oil with Stop Leak ( will this stop knee action leaks? )
- Sta-Lube Hydraulic & Jack Oil
- Hapco Products - Hydraulic Oil
- Gunk Liquid Wrench M3332 Hydraulic Jack Oil

In the trunk of the car came a partially used container of Mobile Circulating Oil Heavy Medium (SAE 20) a premium turbine oil. I can only assume the contents match the container.

Question : If this is what is currently in the shocks and I was to change to hydraulic oil, can I or do I need to drain what fluid is in the shocks?

So Called stop leaks will not help as there are no neopreen seals to swell up. In fact aWith todays gas it wil not "ping" and ru 1937 has no neoprene seals in the entire car.



the main thing with the original shock fliid was it was a very lght oi and did not thicken ant 20 Deg below zero. I always used ATF in mine and if yor 1937 was mie I would use ATF now for topping off.

If the timing was set on balll you can then advance the octane selector anothe 8 Deg. With to days 87 octang gas it will not ping as the engine was designed to run on 70 octane gas,

Dare I say, that I've added Safeway's 92 octane ethanol free gas? How would that change the octane selector position?

It won't, just wastes your money. Using the OEM timing you can burn 65 octane fuel if you could find it. You really need to find a mechanic with experience working on these really old cars. All the OEM specs are for octane poor gasoline. Look at the graphic I posted above. With 87-89 octane gas you can advance your timing a LOT and get much better performance.

New points should be set a lttle wider to allow for wear-in. I set new points at .021. Also important to apply a thin coat of grease on the cam so the point rubbing block does not wear down as fast. Also remove the rotor and oil the felt in the center of the distributor shAFT TO LUBRICate the advance..changing point setting also affects the timing so the timing is sett after points are adjjusted.

I think your mechanic did not see that there are 2 ways to adjust the static timing.

On my ”˜37 there is a screw and nut perpendicular to the distributor shaft at the base of the clamp. If you loosen that screw you can turn the distributor within the whole clamp arrangement.

To set the timing on my car I first set the octane selector at 0. I do use a timing light to set the ball at the pointer by turning the distributor body in the clamp. Then I tighten that clamp screw. As a final step I advance the octane selector 8 degrees.

That gives me about 13 degrees static timing. I do use regular 87 octane gas with no problems. This is such a low compression engine that it is hard to make it knock on that high an octane.

If I advance it more than that I do have starting problems due to kick-back especially when the engine is hot.

I will do some experimenting on my own based on your inputs. . . . . the closest fuel sources for non ethanol is octane 91 & 92 but there is a place farther out with 87 & 89 which with more driving confidence I could switch to.

I was able to obtain from the local Chevrolet dealer some ACDelco 10-4060 chassis grease which should cover several of the lubrication needs.

but what specifically do you use\suggest to lubricate the following :

- STEERING GEAR ( book says "Steering Gear Lubricant" ) Is there a specific product or would chassis grease work?

- TRANSMISSION ( book says : S.A.E. No.160 grade" ) I've had trouble finding an SAE as high as 160. What can I use? also, my father always swore by adding a can of STP to a transmission . . . . . real or urban legend?

- REAR AXLE ( book says "Hypoid Lubricant S.A.E. No.90 grade" )

During the 1937 year Chevrolet changed the transmission gear oil to #90.
I used 85W-140 in my 1934 and 1939 with good results and also used it in the diffeential.

cornhead Grease for the steering gear

Any John Deere store will have the cornhead grease. It comes in a tube that fits any standard calking gun.

A few years ago I thought that the John Deere Cornhead grease was the right lube for the steering gear.

When I rebuilt my steering box about a year ago I was not pleased with what I saw. My assessment is that the cornhead grease is too thick for that application. There were large pockets in it that were made by the parts moving through their normal table range. The grease never “flowed” back into the area were the worm and sector mesh. Even being close to the exhaust manifold the steering gear never gets hot enough to make it flow like it does in the cornhead gearboxes. Those boxes operate at 150 to 180 degrees.

That is an NGLI 0 grease. I feel that you need an NGLI 00 grease that will sag or flow at room temperature. It is almost like honey.

Steering gear grease needs to be thin enough to flow between the relatively slow moving parts but not so thin that it leaks out past the sector shaft bushings. There is only a basic cork seal on that shaft.

In terms of lubricating and wear properties, the corn head grease is a good product. It just needs to be thinner. Mix your own concoction of any grease and gears oil. You want a viscosity that you can put into the steering gear from a ketchup squeeze bottle like they use to have in restaurants.

I spent the money for the Penrite steering gear lube which is an NGLI 00 grease. Next time I will make my own cocktail.

I had the same experience as Rusty with the John Deere Corn Head grease in my steering box. It never got warm enough to flow properly.

To remedy this situation, I added Mobil 600W to the Corn Head grease and that seems to be much better. I estimate that I'm running 3:1 grease to 600W oil.

Cheers, Dean

Thanks again for all the advice. I just got back from the local John Deere store . . . . . .

I did buy some Corn Head Grease which was only $4 but sounds like I may need to use it cautiously or by diluting it with Mobil 600w.

What I didn't expect to find for the transmission & rear axle needs was John Deere GL-5 Gear Lubricant SAE 85W-140 . . . .
I liked what it said on the bottle "Designed for gears, particularly HYPOID, that operate under conditions of high speed and low torque or low speed and high torque.

Hi guys
For my steering gear I bought a tube of Castrol SHL 00 at the local Napa auto parts store.

It's an NLGI 00, and flows quite easily.
I didn't even need to put the tube in a caulking gun. Just snipped off the tip and pushed.

Great specs too.
Timken OK Load... 50
4 Ball EP Weld Point... 500
4 Ball Wear Scar... .4

And I didn't need to buy 30 pounds of the stuff and pay an arm and a leg for it!

The family is planning a trip to Seaside, Oregon in a couple weeks and I thought it may be my chance to stop by Chevs of the 40's in Vancouver, Wa on the way home.

Chevs of the 40's | 1937-1954 Chevrolet Classic Restoration Parts for Cars & Trucks

https://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detail/10595/Chevrolet_Leaf_Spring_Rear_8_Leaf_Pair.html

I am considering buying one or more of the heavier items my car could use but wanted to get your advice . . . . . . .

The car viewed from the back certainly leans to the left when parked in the drive. I measured it while sitting in the garage assuming my garage floor is level.

Taking measurements at the middle of the hubcap area from floor to bottom of fender :
Front driver side : 28-3/4" Front passenger side : 29-1/2"
Rear driver side : 27-3/4" Rear passenger side : 29"

I was thinking that a new set of rear leaf springs would level the car out or are there any other old or tired suspension parts that I need to check out as well?

Chevs of the 40s sell a 7 and 8 leaf spring option and I wondered which or both would work best. I certainly like the 8 leaf price more.
SPECIFY53 37+54: Leaf Spring -Rear 7 Leaf (Pair) @ $704.25
SPECIFY37 36-37: Leaf Spring -Rear 8 Leaf (Pair) @ $575.00

---------------------------

Terry

VCCA # 58150

The factory spring for a sedan was 8 leafs......replacement parts could have different tensions so ?

The riding heigth of the front knees is adjustable. May be better t get the front level ad see how the rear turs out.

Take a look at this thread regarding the Dubonet -Knee Action- Shocks.
As noted I had shims made; installed them with very good results.
https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php...nclosed-type-main-spring.html#Post453397

___________
Jim P

I'm getting to know my car better and want to keep it for a long time. . . . . . after doing more forum reading and looking for what spare parts are available on the internet I'm trying not to PANIC.

I want to keep everything about my car as original as possible including the 1937 3-speed transmission and clutch. My clutch does shudder some when reversing and I've ground the odd gear (slightly) when not being careful enough when shifting down. I would feel better if I had a spare transmission lying about as a backup and know that I could buy a clutch rebuild kit whenever I needed one.

Does anyone have sources for such parts?

Should I start buying any miscellaneous spare transmission gears or parts for a 37 that I find on eBay on the chance I may need them in future?

---------------------------

Terry

VCCA # 58150

Remember that the transmission is not synchronized to shift into first gear. You have to be stopped or double-clutch to shift into first if you are moving.

The shudder can be caused by bad motor and transmission mounts.

There is not rebuild kit for a ”˜37 clutch. You will need to shop for a lot of individual parts. Take a look at some of my recent posts about a ”˜37 clutch disc.

Rusty is correct about the transmission but it will take a lot of missed gear changes to do any thing that will cause trouble, you basically cleaning its teeth.
Tony

If you need a spare for peace of mind I have a few 37 transmissions but getting one to Washington might be too expensive verses finding one local.

Dave

Based on Tony’s post, I clean my teeth every day!

Me too!
(4 speed, NO synchronizers) :-)

If there are any hotrodders in your area, check them to see if there's anyone making an original Chevy car of the '37or '38 vintage into a hot rod. They usually rip out the drive train and you can pick up parts you want for next to nothing. At one time, I had a half-dozen extra transmissions that I acquired in that way and I don't think I ever paid more than $20.00 for one.

Spend some time reviewing the 1928-1954 parts list. There are some internal parts in the later transmissions that will fit the ”˜37. There is better interchangeability across ”˜40 to ”˜54, but still some back to ”˜37.

In general I would not be too concerned about immediately collecting transmission parts unless you are actually having problems. I doubt if you will ever drive the car enough to wear out the transmission.

Unless your technique is speed-shifting without the clutch!

The gears fit 1937-1939 only. If it is working OK now it will last forever as long as it is full f gear oil.