Hello, Was looking through the Hercules body catalog for 1928 and found the Open Express truck box. I have acquired a 1927 truck, what I am told by a member here to be possibly a late 27 LM. Wondering if a box of this style was also made for 27 trucks? Either way once I get started on this project I am considering a box like this (wood clad in steel) Is there anywhere I can find specs, drawing, photos of how to build a box like this? The wrought iron bracing and tailgate hardware would no doubt have to be duplicated unless it could be found. Thanks, David
There are good dimensions on the catalog pages for the 901 box. I guess the bigger question is were they clad inside, and out? I have seen photos searching the web of both. Then what was the thickness of the wood used? In the one photo I saw where it was clad inside and out the bed sides and tailgate looked to be about 1.5in thick. Is there anyone that makes the round gusset irons for the back, and the tailgate hinges?
For the folks who are wondering, attached below is the model 901 page from the 1928 Hercules Body catalog.
The sides of the bed on my 1928 1/2 ton Hercules Canopy Express are 'armored' on the outside only. One bed side is original and the tailgate has some original hardware on it. When I get a chance, I'll take some photos and post them here.
Over 30 years ago, I bought the tailgate and some side parts from an old horse-drawn wagon that was half buried in the ground. These parts are very similar to to the same parts on my Canopy Express. I'll try and find that stuff in my stash and post some pics of those as well.
Cheers, Dean
Last edited by Rustoholic; 03/29/2108:33 PM. Reason: corrected the 'armored' sides thought
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
Our '28 1/2 ton Canopy Express is the same construction as Dean's. Ours has the rectangular window behind the door that Dean's does not have. Both are Hercules bodied. All the other '28 Canopy Express bodies I have seen have Hercules bodies.
Thanks Dean, These are very helpful pictures. What is picture 7 of? Between the dimensions on the Hercules page and these pictures I should be able to duplicate something when the time comes. The only thing I would need to know is thickness. I'm assuming the flare boards are a 1in board? Then I would need to know the thickness of the finished sides, and tailgate. I have searched the web quite a bit, and have yet to find brackets that are close to those. The guys making a Model T wood bed kit have some of their brackets that are close, but not quite. I can make some of them myself as I am a welder/fabricator by trade. We will see where I take it. First I have to get the truck home, (in a couple weeks) evaluate the engine, and reproduce the cab wood and get it stable. Thanks again, David
Photos 5, 6, and 7 are three pics of the same part.
Five shows the top of the angled rail support. Six shows it horizontally going under the flair board and over the top of the bed side. Seven shows the support going down the inside of the bed to the bed floor.
Most of the metal parts are made from 1/4" x 1 1/4" flat bar steel. The flair board itself is 5 1/2" x 3/4", with a 3/4x3/4x1/8 angle iron screwed to the top (to protect the top edge).
More photos below.
Cheers, Dean
Last edited by Rustoholic; 04/01/2104:28 PM. Reason: added photos
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
Thanks for the additional photos. Helps a lot. The floor boards look typical for a Chevy truck using a wood floor though the boards are not rabbited for the strips to lay in flush like later year wood floors. I doubt those are the original strips. They almost look like they could be aluminum flats? Comparing the side thickness to the sill board under the tailgate it looks like the sides are about 1-1/2 thick? You said the inside was clad in steel also? Can't tell as you have too much stuff in the back David
Yeah, do not pay attention to the base boards of the bed. Those are plain old boards and aluminum strips.
The previous owner did a lot of work to the body and some of the work was pretty hokey. Bondo on the front fenders, thin aluminum sheet on the right side of the bed, and other stuff.
The left side of the bed and the tailgate are original. In three weeks, I'll be emptying the bed so I'll take some photos of the inside of the left bed side. The 'stuff' that's in there now are old tools, extra parts, original literature, and lubricants for when I take a drive or go to a show.
The reason for emptying the bed is that I'm driving the truck to a car show/swap meet on May 8th in Alameda, CA. The stuff that I have for sale will go into the bed. No Chevy stuff, but leftover parts from a friend's stash that I'm helping the family get rid of.
By the way, I edited my post above to say that the bed was armored on the outside only. I remembered it wrong and should have looked before posting. ;-(
Another instance of my advanced CRS condition (can't remember sh*t) .
Dean
Last edited by Rustoholic; 04/02/2111:10 PM. Reason: typo
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
After some additional research today I found some old posts that describe early 30's bed wood and strips. I learned today that all bed wood of the era was usually southern yellow pine and stained black, not like all the fancy varnish we see now a days. Now IDK if taking that back a couple years to 27/28 is also true that the bed wood would be black? Can't imagine it wouldn't be. Also it sounds like the division strips, or seam strips over the wood were raised above the wood so cargo loads wouldn't gouge the wood bed all up? Does anyone know what these strips may have looked like in 27/28? Just a smooth metal strip, or a formed one like in later model years? With that truck bed being about 44inches in width as stated in the Hercules flyer I would also be curious if anyone knows how many boards across that width they would have? Today was suppose to be truck pick up day. The seller had something come up, so it will either be during the week or next weekend. Thanks for any help! David
I have always thought the bed wood in the 20s and at least early 30s was northern white pine not southern yellow pine. At least that is what I determined from the remaining wood samples that have examined. My '28 Hercules body Canopy express (1/2 ton) has flat steel strips that mount on top of the boards to provide a small gap to slide objects into the bed.
Thanks Chipper. I would assume that your box area on your canopy express is narrower than the 44in width for the Hercules 901 box due to it following the same width of the truck cab area. It still may be helpful to know what your board count and width is. I count 8 in Deans pics with the outer two looking more narrow. I would guess board thickness to be a full 1in with maybe originals even being a 5/4 board? The other thing that would be of benefit would be to know the thickness of those metal strips on top of the bed wood. I am assuming the width at 1.25in due to Dean stating above that the rest of strapping on the box is that width. If I recall the one post I found in my search here yesterday for early 30's trucks only called for 3 cross supports under the bed wood. I will have to find that again. I'm kinda putting the cart ahead of the horse, but without having picked up the truck yesterday all I can do is more research at this point for future aspirations. David
Dean, Thanks for remembering. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I was wondering if you could get me some more detailed shots of how the side steel attaches. I see it has the top bend, and is nailed down through, is the bottom edge the same? It also appears the ends of the side steel have bends that wrap around also (at least the back shows that and I assume the front to be that way also)? Also curious how the underside is framed. Now this may be different as I am thinking the canopy express is built like a 1/2 ton on a car chassis, and I am looking at doing this for a 1-ton truck, but it would be good for reference I'm sure. And lastly if you could verify the inside width. The Hercules literature says 44in in width and 14in in height. I am curious if those are kinda like general dimensions (like calling a 2x4 a 2x4) or actual like inside dimensions. Assuming side boards etc are 3/4in lumber not 4/4. Thanks again! David
Tony, thanks for the kind words. I'd say roughly 1/3 of the wood is original and the other 2/3 was replaced by the previous owner (PO). Luckily, he worked on it for over 50 years while it resided in his garage and kept it out of the elements. ;-) In general, he seemed to keep to the original design, but in some areas, he did some pretty hokey stuff.
Along the hokey stuff line, there is a noticeable error with the outside edge bed boards and aluminum bed strips. If you look closely at the sixth photo above (IMG_8009.JPG), you'll see that the outside edge bed board is raised slightly (about 5/8 inch). That board is being pushed up by the rear axle hump in the chassis. Either the PO didn't raise the bed enough to clear the hump or there should be a hole in the underside of that board for the hump to stick up into. Both the right and left outermost boards have the same problem. At the moment, I am at a loss for how to fix these errors because I do not want to disassemble the whole interlocking body just to rework these two boards. ;-(
David, below are some more photos. Yes, the side armor (sheet metal cover) is bent and nailed to the top, bottom and end edges. As you can see in the pics, the inside surface of the bed side is not armored. I do not know if the sheet metal was glued to the outside-facing surface of the boards or not, but the sheet metal is flat and tight against the boards and there are no nail heads showing.
The inside width of the bed is 45 inches and the height of the sides are indeed 14 inches. The thickness of the side boards and rail boards are 3/4 inch.
Speaking of the rail boards, I noticed that they are pointed at the bottom (I didn't see this before). I made a cross-section drawing of a rail board to show the dimensions, the point at the bottom, and the dimensions of the angle iron that is screwed to the top. BTW, the angle iron is set into the wood rails.
As an aside, the flat bed of my '27 one ton truck is built upon two long boards on edge (7 inches by 1 3/4 inches) that have a curve cut into them to fit over the rear axle hump in the chassis. Attached below is a pic of that set up.
Cheers, Dean
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
While it may not be authentic a fix for the outer edge boards is to put equivelant packing between the existing lower frame and the chassis pads. This will lift the tray and allow the boards to sit flat. Tony
Tony, I wish it was that simple. The front of the bed is tied into the cab and the rear uprights for the roof are also tied into the bed, so I cannot just raise the bed with spacers.
Thanks for the thought, though.
To be honest, I haven't spent a lot of time contemplating solutions to this problem. If I can get the individual two boards out, then I can carve a well out the bottom to make room for the chassis hump.
But, since I carry around a lot of tools and show accessories in the bed, the errant boards are always buried under my crap. Out of sight, out of mind. ;-)
All my best, Dean
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
I wonder how much of what we are looking at as far as the underside frame work is from the PO. if he replaced the floor boards and strips it is likely he could have replaced the supporting frame work, and it is not the way it was made originally. It seems odd to me that they would just have those 2-2x4s just floating under there. It appears obvious that the underframe is only the 1.5, or 1.75in (whatever those underframe boards are) above the highest hump in the frame. Then there is the added spacer timber(s) up in the front to level things out (again depending on how high that hump is) And I need to keep in mind that the hump height on my 1-ton chassis is more than likely higher than your canopy express chassis. I will have to what there is for holes in strategic places along the frame, and take a good straight edge and see how high that axle hump is.
Going back to the artist rendition on the 3/28 post it is portrayed that none of that side framing is seen suggesting that they would have put a metal conceal strip over it to hide it all and make it look nice or the steel cladding on the side would have extended down more in the front to hide it unlike what we see in your 5 of 9 picture Dean. I would be shooting for the artistic rendition. It also appears that there is a hand painted pinstripe on the sides. Going back to your box Dean, it appears that the 4 vertical steel straps have threaded studs on the bottoms that bolt down through the frame boards that run the width. Is this so? Is that to say then that there are only 4 frame boards that go side to side that the 3/4in floor boards attach to? Sorry for being such a persistent pest Hopefully this thread will be informative for more than just me!
I suspect that this discussion of my truck's bed construction is at a point of not bringing new information forward that is applicable to your recreation of the model 901 bed that Hercules offered. There is no way for me to confirm that the PO followed the original design of the body and bed.
I also think that the 2x3 and 2x4 cross boards under the bed are too wimpy to supposedly hold a 1000 pound load. More hokeyness there.
Along other lines, I did a search of the VCCA membership database and found that 62 members in the US have 1927 trucks and 93 members have 1928 trucks. If you take the time to put together an email list from those folks' profiles, and ask them who has one ton pickup beds, you might find some that are Hercules built. At least, you can connect with folks that can give you a better idea of how those beds were constructed and mounted on the chassis.
This thread reminded me of a G&D cover (January 2005) that had a photo of a gorgeous 1929 Canopy Express. Below is a scan from that cover. Unfortunately, the owner of that truck (Duane Farrell of Fulton, New York) is not currently in the membership database. This photo shows the bed sides covering all the structural stuff under the bed.
BTW, the membership database shows four people who own 1929 Canopy Express trucks. ;-)
Cheers, Dean
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
It's quite a project and still a work in progress, but I thought I would update this post with a few pictures showing how my rendition of the box is coming along. I just have the tailgate wood yet to make and couple more custom brackets. I still need to order some correct looking hardware (square headed) I'm thinking the metal bed strips I would like to hold down with a countersunk cap screw, but to find just plane slotted ones in the length I need has proven to be tricky. Hopefully a member can help me out with the latch hardware for my tailgate and hinges, so I don't have to try and recreate those as well. When the wood is all finished the whole thing will get clad with steel, painted and pinstriped to match the cab which is another work in progress with the wood framing. Wood, wood, and more wood! David