VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Condenser option

not sure, everyone i have bought from TFS is a ring, and when i asked, they noted it was the original style connector. i either cut it off and swap it out, or turn the ring into a split ring (cut out section to fit over the section)

Currently I and a gentleman member here are working on an option to (a) leave the original condenser in place but disable it and (b) mount an updated one inside the distributor which will take its place but which won't be visible. Hopefully by later this week or next I'll have an idea whether my work was ok...that is to say whether it fits or not. More to follow on this and if I had a way to insert an image I'd do that to show what the design looks like.
Jon

Jon, I can post the photos that you sent me of the condenser you are discussing above if you would like. Hopefully it should be here in the next day or two and i can post more photos if needed. also if i get it before the weekend, and i get the time i will try to do a swap out. i will do a test fit on the spare from my 1929 firs to ensure form & fit.

as some of you know i have been working with Jon in regards to getting his NEW condenser/capacitor to fit and work on the older Chevrolets while maintaining a Original appearance for the purists. Goal is to have a modern reliable capacitor that will last a long time and keep these Chevrolets running.

from a previous posting above you can see the NEW Capacitor that he came up with that works on the later Chevrolets. Think 1940+, Jon can correct me if wrong.

Round One: fit NEW Capacitor into Can/Sleeve to look Stock
first thought was to find a can/sleeve that the NEW Capacitor could fit inside of, and then be wired up and capped off to look original. Jon did a lot of searching, and inquiring. end result was the cost of getting a can/sleeve that would work for these would be cost prohibitive.

Round One goes to Cost and Availability

Round Two: Going Inside, but Look Original Outside
since replacing the original was out of the cost scope. next was to mount then NEW Capacitor inside the distributor similar to what he is doing with the later model distributors.

first thought was how were we going to make it look original. so came the plan of keeping the original condenser located and mounted as it is, but electronically disconnect it. the simplest method i thought of was to disconnect the connector end, clip off the connector, then heat shrink a layer or two of heat shrink on the end, at least 3/8" to 1/2" long, only 1/4" or so on the end of the wire. the other would be free in the air. then install a new flag style split connector over the heat shrink on the end of the wire, in that 1/4" overlap. then you could trim some of the excess heat shrink off if desired, just do not have open wire on the end !! you could also heat shrink the connector to ensure no electrical connection. then reconnect the condenser as normal. another option was to cut the wire in the between the condenser and the connector, then pull them apart about an 1/8 or more, then heat shrink them like that. you could use a piece of wire insulation to prevent the heat shrink from collapsing in the gap and make it look fluid.

next was how to mount the NEW Capacitor inside the distributor. big problem is that the distributor which is a Delco Remy 633g is smaller then the ones used on the later Chevrolet. so space inside is at a premium. the NEW Capacitor used in these cars, mounts flat on the plate, via a single screw through a hole in the tab on the top. since i had a spare distributor on my bench, along with having dimensions from Jon went to work on a plan. we came up with mounting the Condenser up right with a tab on the side and bolting it using one of the screws that hold the plate in place. just need a longer screw, and a nut. and then with the same split flag connector we would connect it to the electrolock on the inside of the distributor. so Jon built one up using the dimensions I provided. in a few days i had it in hand and ready for a test fit... it was a No Go, as we found out that there was NO way to get a Nut on a longer screws in that location, as the screw was to close to the plate. and the wire would need to be a tad longer in this configuration.

Round Two goes to the Distributor Plate

Round Three: Alternate Mounting
while trying to mount and figure out the layout, i thought about using the scrwe that holds the plate in place (the one you loosen to adjsut the point gap) we could make a simple braket with a leg on it and mount it in the same general area but connect to a different point, we would still ahve a solid ground to the distributor. another concern that arose from Round Two was that we need to make sure we are not against hte housing of hte distributore with the NEW Capacitor. this is due to most of hte distributor caps have a small ip on them that sits inside the housing to help seat and position the cap correctly. so i made up a carboard template and did severl test fittings, and came up with a shape that should work fine. it would stay clear of the moving parts, as well as keep the NEW Capacitor off the distributor wall. i laid it out in AutoCAD and then in talking with Jon we added in a Gussett to help reinfoce the bracket and ensure that the NEW Capacitor did not dance around. I sent the dimensions and CAD file to Jon to fabricate. Jon cut out a new bracket, mounted and wired it all up. He put on an extra long wire lead, and left off the connector so that i could get it mounted then cut the wire to length and install the connector. in a few days i had the NEW Capacitor and Bracket mount.
I did a rough test fit jsut to make sure it would fit generally before i started taking things apart. I removed the screw from the plate, dropped in the NEW Capacitor and Bracket, then replaced the screw, positioned the NEW Capacitor where i wanted it to sit, and then tightened it down. it fits very nice in its new home. got clearance around it for the ditributor cap and it clears all moving parts, including the rotor button. next up was figuring out wire length, i used a simple scerw, washer, and nut to simulate the electrolock connection. i cut the wire to length, then stripped, tinned, and soldered on the Flag Connector. then installed the NEW Capacitor and validated clearances and fit. Rotor Button spins freely, cap goes on and off easily, and can easily adjust the point gap as needed.

Round Three goes to Us

next up i plan to install this on my 1930 and see how it goes. since the 1930 is runng top notch i should be able to tell if anything goes south. i will disable the existing condenser as noted above and try to get some pictures of what i did.

once we get this validated Jon can then get some made for anyone that is interested. plan is to build them ready to install, with wire cut to length and the flag ocnnector installed. I may write up some instructions as i do my 1930 and try to remember to take some pictures.

Many thanks to Jon for his time and efforts in this, and i can not wait to test this out and see how it goes. also going to need some nice weather, current forecast here is rain and temps no warmer than 40F the next 10 days !! those that are an hour west of hear are getting ice and snow.

Have you considered mounting the condenser on the electrolock ignition switch where the wire from the negative post screws onto the switch body. There are several places to mount (hide) the condenser under that dash.

i had thought about it but was literally going for the path and distance of least resistance. thinking closer to the fire the better.

So I just took one of my condensers and measured the capacitance. It measured 288 Pf or about .3 Mfd.

OOPS, pesky decimals...
One microfarad is a million picofarads, called micro micro farads when I was a kid.
SO 288 picofarads is 0.000288 microfarad.
WL

Had to dust off some brain cells lol - Believe it's Milli, Micro, Nano, Pico with each being multiples of 1000 smaller. Pico is indeed REALLY small. The 0.3mfd sounds good so maybe a meter range setting/calculation as many meters have huge variance for capacitors and a crude test method.

Your setup is looking good so far BearsFan! You and Jon have done a great job making this new Capacitor fit. Looking forward to your road test.

In US made electronics from the same period as our old cars, only Micro and MicroMicro were used. Anything US made from that period will follow that standard. MicroMicro is now known as Pico. Move the decimal point 6 places.

Nano is in-between and was only seen overseas until fairly recent times.

0.22 uF = 220 nF = 220,000 uuF(pF)

For what it's worth, measuring capacitance of an old condenser accurately requires a capacitance bridge. They were common in the electronics repair industry in the 50s and 60s, but now not so much.

Old condensers were made from foil and paper, paper so thin you can see through it. When the paper rots, and it always does, there is "leakage", meaning DC can get from one plate to the other. Leakage fools most modern DMMs and capacitance testers causing them to read high.

A capacitance bridge won't have a digital readout, but won't be so easily fooled. It may not be perfect, but will get you a much better idea what spec an old condenser was manufactured to, as long as the condenser is not too bad. A modern DMM or capacitance tester should be fine testing a new recently made condenser.

Yes my bad. It should have read nF. I measured another at 200. I a using a fairly respectable auto ranging meter. I was checking them against some of my stock modern capacitors.

Thanks guys,
Hope this helps. As I mentioned I'm happy to try to fit this into anything if I can get info, pictures, etc. The CAD work and the assistance of BearsFan31 was incredibly helpful in this case.

On another topic, I've been also working on fuel gauge senders...so far limited to the 0-30 ohm units. Like the condensers, replacements seem to be made in China or Taiwan and they range from okay at the very best to absolute unreliable junk. In one case, I discovered a 0-90 ohm coil had been modified to registering 0-30 ohms by dribbling blobs of solder on the coil windings to (a) reduce resistance and (b) guarantee the output of the sender would not match reality in any way. Please email me if you want images of that fine work. If anyone here is curious, you can see what I've been doing in the Electrical Bay section of the Stovebolt forum. So far I've rescued a few of the old C-shaped arc type and I'm in the process of designing a new flat plane sender...an idea which has been in my head for over 50 years. Soon, hopefully there will be a new departure which will work in thin vertical tanks (like those used in the AD Pickup)...a sender style I've never seen used before.
Jon

Great work by you guys. Just so you can compare your electrical skills to mine, you should know that I have replaced plugs on lamp cords several times.

Mike

it has been raining almost everyday this month, think we have had 3 or 4 days of sunshine this month !!

today the rain stopped and the sun was out !! i went out in the garage and worked on installing Jon's new condenser option ion my 1930 Chevrolet.

back to our first thought on how were we going to make it look original by keeping the original condenser located and mounted as it is, but electronically disconnect it. there were two methods so i did both to see how to do it and how it looks.

Method One:
cut the wire in the between the condenser and the connector, then cut a small piece off one of the pieces about an 1/8 or more, then remove the wire core (make sure you get all the strands out) then using heat shrink put this empty shell in between the condenser wire and the connector wire. heat shrink them together to hold them. this shell is to prevent the heat shrink from collapsing in the gap and make it the wire look complete. Then reconnect the condenser as normal.

Method Two:
is to disconnect the connector end, clip off the connector, then heat shrink a layer or two of heat shrink on the end, at least 3/8" to 1/2" long, only 1/4" or so on the end of the wire. the other would be free in the air. then install a new flag style split connector over the heat shrink on the end of the wire, in that 1/4" overlap. then you could trim some of the excess heat shrink off if desired, just do not have open wire on the end !! you could also heat shrink the connector to ensure no electrical connection. then reconnect the condenser as normal.

just my notes on doing these methods.

Both methods disconnect the condenser electrically. methods one takes a little more time and finesse, also will have a splice in line somewhere, you can choose where. Methods two is simple and straight forward. in my pictures it looks off, but the wire from the condenser is blue so i used blue heat shrink. got a colorful selection you can choose your poison, or create your own. if you are not worried about looking original then you can remove the original condenser and bracket all together.

now for installation of the NEW condenser.

!! NOTE that this install will require you to reset your point gap !!

this is how i did it, your method may vary.

remove distributor cap
remove rotor button
remove lower point plate screw
...this is the screw that you loosen to adjust the point gap. !! DO NOT ADJUST or TRY TO REMOVE the upper pivot screw !!
place the new Condenser with bracket in the distributor as shown. line up bracket hole with the screw hole in plate & distributor
replace screw slightly tighten as you will need to adjust point gap later
loosen the nut on the end of the electrolock
slide new condenser connector between nut and points arm, can install a washer if desired
tighten electrolock screw, ensure all components are in their place, including insulators
...make sure wire in inside the distributor housing, and down low, as not to interfere with rotor button
set points (.018"-.022") & tighten point screw
install rotor button
install distributor cap
test fire and enjoy

after doing the install, fired up truck and let it warm up

then backed it out and took it for a quick 10 minute drive.

no issues everything seems to be fine and functioning

once the neighborhood dries up i will drive it more, lots of standing water around here, not a fan of driving it in standing water, so avoided that and stayed on few backroads around here that are high and dry !!

let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

so far i am happy with it

Glad it's working well and love your approach with options and tests for each! Rain, Rain. Sounds way better than the -30 we had for almost 2 straight weeks but at least you got to give it a test drive...

My first thought on disabling the original can condenser would be to start with a can with an extra long wire and cut the wire off flush with the can.
Drill into the grommet in the can with a larger drill bit than the wire and make a large and deep hole in the can, effectively gutting the area around the wire. Pack this new hole completely with black RTV Silicone or black epoxy.
Stuff the cut end of your wire into the wet RTV Silicone and let it cure.

This is assuming you can get a can with a really long wire which I suspect you might have tried to find. Alternatively buy a new crimp on connector (you can source the old style or reuse one) and make a new long wire to stuff into the gutted can...

Thanks for posting! Looks great. Hope this is helpful to folks here. Sounds like there will be at least 2 or 3 ways to disable the original condenser.
Best regards,
Jon

Thank you
jon_goodman@yahoo.com is the guy I was looking for.