VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1930 1/2 Ton NOT wanting to run Happy

working on the 1930 1/2 ton and been fighting it for a few days. after cleaning out the gas tank, installing new fuel line, putting on the spare rebuilt fuel pump, and flushing out the carb.

got everything installed then dumped in a gallon of fuel and looked for leaks. the plug has a sow seepage, so tightened it up a tad and that solved that issue.

next was trying to fire it up... and that is when the fun begins. truck fought me every step of the way. getting fuel to pump no issue, getting fuel to carb not happening. seems that the valve/wafer on the discharge side was stuck closed. easy fix after hour of hunting down issue.

then getting carb primed... oh the joy, luckily a friend was over to help and we got the carb primed.

had to choke carb and hold hand over carb to get it to start. and would only run with choke on. even once it was warmed up.

then it ran hot. laser temp on block was 212 !!

so plan for sunday is to go to square 1

reset all valves, cold set. then pull all plugs, clean and regap, pull distributor cap set points and clean them. make sure when 1 at at TDC that the rotor is pointed at 1 as well as the wires in the correct firing order. oh the joy.

decided to do a fuel pump test, see if and how much fuel the pump was actually pumping...

shot a short 10 second video, not sure if this is proper flow or low ?

1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Fuel Pump Test

got a dwell question. in resetting the timing and such from scratch i did get the car to fire and run, sorta. had to keep choke out a little but did a dwell test to see what the dwell angle was. according to the info i have on hand it says spark gap .040" timing at 18 d, point gap .018" or 34 degrees.

with this setup cold i was getting dwell of about 24 degrees as shown below:

was pretty consistent, even revving up and idling down.

per my understanding to increase the dwell angle have to close the points. so ended up at about .013" and dwell of about 29-30 deg.

also understand that you set the plugs, then the dwell then tweak the timing... and somewhere adjust the fuel flow to get idle as low as possible without stuttering.

Maybe I am mis-reading your meter. It looks like you have 31 degrees of dwell.

Unless you have done a V8 engine swap I think you should be reading on the 6 cylinder scale.

lol, sorry was looking and typing and not thinking on what i was physically doing in the garage when i set it... been a LONG monday !!

i was at 31 degrees as pictured then adjusted and now at 36-37 degrees. I am going to tinker with it a little more to get it close to the 34 degrees per recommendations. Will open the gap up to .014" or .015" and see where that puts me. I can then tinker with the timing to get it happy and then carb to get idle smooth and steady.

I don't think that a couple of degrees of dwell will make any difference - certainly not enough to make the engine run hot. IIRC correctly, idle RPM should be 350. Mine idles fine there.

I'm thinking that you've got the timing retarded. That would make it hard starting, and running hot. The way I set mine up was to set the points to the right opening then manually (using the crank) then turn the engine to locate the timing marks on the flywheel. I marked the mark with white chalk. With the timing mark pointed at 12BTC, the rotor pointing to #1 wire and the #1 valves closed, it should be close enough to start and run decently. Use a timing light and advance the timing to 18BTC (that's when the timing mark is just about to leave the window).


As for the timing light, if you don't have a 6V version (who does?), you'll need to power a 12V version. I used the battery from my riding mower. Just make sure that you connect the negative from the 12V battery to the car chassis otherwise you have current running back through the negative of the timing light which causes almost instantaneous death (I learned the hard way).

You could also have a carb issue. Mine did when I first started it. It would start easily when cold and only run until it got a bit warm. Then it shut off and refused to start. A carb rebuild solved the problem and the '31 starts just as easily as the modern cars that I own.

I agree that 3 degrees of dwell is not a concern.

The dwell will increase as the rubbing block on the points wear. The dwell will decrease as the points erode and the gap increases. The trick is to find points with the rubbing block wear at the same rate as the point erosion. That way the gap and dwell never change.

Good luck with that!

thanks :) plan to set the points and dwell to get it close to 34 degrees and let it ride. then fire it up and time it in. the timing light i have is the Innova 3555 and it is a great light. i borrow the 12v generator battery off my bench as needed.

i am thinking the hard starting issue is a carb issue. the PO said he has been driving it but hte truck tells a different story, looks like it has been sitting for a little while. luckily i have a spare carburetor on the shelf from the 1929 which is getting engine rebuilt. so can swap and do a test. that should tell me if the carb is an issue. if it is then i will send it out to get a clean up/rebuild. if it keeps acting up, then i know there is another issue !!

Hi BearsFan315
Gotta agree with the others above regarding dwell. Put the dwell meter up on the shelf and forget about it.
Set the points at .018 and the dwell will take care of itself.
You might want to start with a new condensor and points. Especially a condensor. Condensors can go bad with time alone. And they can produce the strangest symptoms.
A weak coil is a possibility too.
The symptoms of both of the above will be exacerbated by a wider plug gap, so you might try .030 to .035 and see what happens. My 29 ran fine with that.
As for timing... I believe it was supposed to have been 12 degrees... with the spark button on the dash fully IN. That said... it'll run better with more. At one time I actually set mine at 12 degrees with the button OUT and retarded. Then when up and running I'd push the button in for the extra advance.
The heat issue may be timing related, or a separate cooling issue.
Best of luck... and check your condensor!
Ole

ok tinkered with the truck again last tonight...

new cap, rotor, condenser
set plug gap to .040"
set points to .018"
swapped out carb to spare 150s
...set idle screw to 1 turn out

few cycles and carb primed and then started. used 1/2 choke then once it fired pushed in choke and kept running.

then adjusted the idle screw to get it to run smoother (still not 100% on proper way and what is best way to do this)

then set up timing... adjusted it so that at idle with spark knob all the way in engine is running at 18 BTDC

i hooked up rpm meter and said it was running around 600-700 rpm, i know that is high... if i try to tweak the idle/mixture then i can get it down to about 500 and below that sounds like it is sputtering/hesitating. also validated dwell and it is right at 31 degrees, which i can live with.

not enough knowledge and experience to do the fine tuning. i can get it to run but tweaking it to get it right is another thing :(

order of tuning:
1-set spark gap
2-set point gap/dwell
3-set timing
4-set idle & mixture

This is exactly how mine ran for a few hundred miles after first firing. Once all the internals got introduced to each other (meaning worn in) I was able to slow the idle down.

ok, engine has close to 1000 miles on it from PO
this was supposed to be a buy and drive/enjoy, but has not turned out that way. based on what i have seen looks like it has been sitting a little while.

got everything done and it will fire up a lot easier and quicker, usually with a little choke if any at all

issue is now it wants to cough/pop back through the carb

it will idle fine, but if you press on accelerator it wants to choke, gasping sound then when it catches up it wants to cough/pop back through carb. tells me it is running lean, even if i increase the idle same issue.

took it out around the block and it pops under acceleration as well. if you granny crawl it out of gear and up to speed you are OK, slowly release clutch and NO accelerator.

FYI this is the Carb from my 1929, RJH-08 150S

the one off the 1930 is on its way to the Chip Meister

did a test to see IF fuel flows when you push the accelerator.

this is what happens when you push the accelerator: 1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Carter RJH-08 150S Pump Test

assume this is correct, is the fuel coming from the bowl or the accelerator pump ??

Looks like okay to me on the first pump but should be the same on the second if the fuel level in the bowl is as high as it should be. The fuel to the pump comes from the bowl.

BTW
Got the carburetor from the USPS box on Saturday. Looks really good. Took it mostly apart, checked the parts, cleaned a bit and put back together. Didn't get to test run today but should tomorrow. Based on what I found it should run well. If so suggests other problems.

will validate in the morning, do a few squirts and see what happens...

That is great, but would be really strange since it is acting totally different when i swapped them out ?!?

let me know what you find out and how it operates in the test

did a second carb test to validate that it would squirt fuel consistently on more that 1 pump... 

1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Carter RJH-08 150S Pump Test 2
 
carb seems to be functioning properly

did some back tracking of fuel supply and went back to the fuel pump.

after taking it off and looking it over found out that the gasket for the fuel bowl had swollen and pushed itself out of its seat allowing pump to start sucking in air

matched up top edge and new on top of existing in fuel pump

can really see how much it swelled zoomed in

side view

so swapped out the gaskets and did a bench tench using my vac/press guage. was getting 5-7 Hg on Suction and approx 1.5-2.0 PSI on the discharge, which is more than enough. should be slightly lower when ion car, as on bench by hand i am getting 100% full stroke whereas the cam will not. 

reinstalled the fuel pump, ran same vac/press test i ran on the bench. got 4.5-5.0 Hg on the suction and about 1.0-1.5 PSi on the discharge.

reconnected everything and then did a prime test

1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Fuel Pump Test 1 of 2

1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Fuel Pump Test 2 of 2

filled the bowl up in 2 cycles of ten seconds, which is pretty good from my view.

next test was to connect my tube up to the discharge side and see how it pumps out into my test container. 

1930 Chevrolet Universal AD - Fuel Pump Test 2

looks like a good amount of pressure and output

reconnected the fuel lines primed fuel up to the carb, and fired away. truck fired up and started to run. pulled out choke to fire, then one fired pushed choke back in, did not need choke to run.

let it idle for a minute andthen went to check on idle and look for leaks, when it started to stutter then died.

went back and fired it back up, then same ordeal.

then would not start. seemed like a fuel issue... again


took a break ate dinner then dropped carb bowl, it was bone dry, only a tad bit of fuel.

so pulled carb and did a test to see if fuel was pumping to the carb, maybe line was clogged ?!?

not a drop of fuel when i cycled engine.


so back to fuel pump, removed discharge and hooked up my line and bottle, cycled engine, nothing, but could clearly hear it sucking air !!

so started to look around and notice glass bowl was not 100% full.

put pan under glass bowl and removed it. and noticed the new gasket was swollen and distorted !!


not sure what is going on with these gaskets ?!? there are brand new gaskets i got from The Filling Station in the last 2 weeks. I am running NON Ethanol gasoline. yet they swell up within in 10 minutes of being in the fuel ? 

got up this morning and pulled out a cork glass bowl gasket i had on the spares shelf to do a comparison, and the swollen gaskets had dried back out and returned back to near normal size >!< 

this really baffles me, seems they are swelling up in the gasoline then when they dry out returning to normal size ??

The lower molecular weight components in the gasoline are entering the gasket and swelling it. That gasket material is garbage so put it there or keep one so you can use it as a pattern to make a cork gasket for your fuel pump. Cork is 1000% better in those fuel pumps. I use 100% cork as the rubber in the mixed cork/rubber may swell as well. If the rubber swells more than the cork it will destroy those as well.

I also use cork as it is more compressible and can compensate for a little deformation in the die-cast (aka pot metal, white metal) housing. The pressure on the two attachments for the tightening screw for the glass bowl eventually deform the housing. Cork is soft enough to continue to seal. Neoprene or rubber is too stiff to do that.

Thanks Chipper... Hmmm i have been using the Fel-Pro Cork Rubber Material to make all my cork gaskets. wonder how much rubber is in that composition have not been able to find SDS or detail info. I will look to see if i can find 1/8" Cork material around.

i was concerned that the gasoline would break down the binder used to hold the cork together ?!? even more so with ethanol