VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1941 SD starting/timing process

First, I'd like to thank everyone who has given counsel as I continue the journey to getting my '41 SD back on the road...the project is coming along well! Enjoying some great father/daughter time during this project!

Here's where we stand...I'm getting fuel up to the carburetor per this thread:

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/446756/1941-sd-getting-fuel-to-the-carb.html#Post446756

and will continue to monitor how that goes...the engine turns over and sounds good, but no 'sparking'...not even a gasp.

For my testing based on some threads from the various forums I have:
1. Tested the coil: 1.2 ohms on the primary winding, and 13.38K on the secondary winding. If what I'm reading is correct, the coil seems to be good...push back if you don't agree. I picked up a new NAPA coil and the measurement on the new coil is 1.5ohms on primary and 9.22K on secondary...I thought I might see higher on the new coil for the secondary winding. Note: I picked up all new electrical ignition parts from NAPA so I would have them on hand...see more below).

2. Another test I did was taking a circuit light and connecting on the negative terminal of the coil and touching the positive terminal of the coil and cranking the engine, no light! Per a youTube video, I understand I'm supposed to see the light go on and off as the engine cranks...nothing. The circuit light tester is for 6V

3. When I pull the #1 spark plug, with wire attached and ground it to the block or other metal part, and crank the engine, I get no spark...nothing...zip. I assume I am doing this test right. Note the plugs look really good and clean and gap'd to .040

When I set #1 cylinder to TDC, I see the rotor is over the #1 spark plug on the cap, so I think we are ok there. I found the timing marks on the flywheel and cleaned those off...I haven't yet determined if they line up to the pointer yet, but I'll come back to that. I was hoping to see some just basic spark coming out of the plug. I do see the rotor moving around and the points gap opening and closing...I do need to measure that gap still, but for now I am assuming it is fine.

So my plan right now is to do the following, now that I have a new coil, distributor cap, points, condenser, (the new rotor wasn't in the order, go figure, but the old one looks good, for now) is to:

Step 1. Pull the #1 plug hand rotate the engine to TDC (have to say I love the crank tool from Chevys of the '40s guys...great addition and makes it easy). My daughter helped with the 'thumb' test, feeling the air press out of #1)

Step 2. Once at TDC, make sure the rotor is over the #1 plug and I can see the timing "bb" on the flywheel. (see pics below)

Step 3. One-by-one, put in a new component, starting with the new coil until, hopefully she fires up. Here is where I'm not sure...should I swap it all out, or go one piece at a time...meaning, should I just bite the bullet and put all the new pieces in at once (and set the gap on the distributor etc.)?

What else should I look for? Are there other tests I should be doing? I still haven't checked for gas spraying into the carb, but even a healthy dose of starter fluid and/or a bit of gas down the throat isn't getting me anything...I am assuming it is all electrical ignition/timing problems at this juncture.

Below are a set of pictures of my timing marks...anything else on these symbols I should be concerned about? I only care about the "bb", correct, not the triangle or other letters "U | C"?

Thanks in advance for any additional thoughts on my plan...I'm in new mechanical territory for me right now, so I want to be well thought out.

Note: timing mark pictures...I cleaned off some minor surface rust, and then highlighted the marks with a bit of orange paint...you see the before and after, hence the slight discoloration. For some reason I don't get the "attachment manager" feature, so have to drop these links in directly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ad58ppfpvtqn4r/Photo%20Aug%2025%2C%2010%2013%2012%20PM.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yzybcr64akfpbwa/Photo%20Aug%2025%2C%2010%2020%2025%20PM.jpg?dl=0

The process to allow photo posting privileges is a manual one and needs to be done by a moderator or webmaster. Hopefully one will see this post and take care of the situation but if not then send an Email to the webmaster requesting access.as you are a VCCA member.

Thanks, I sent a note too...I assumed either I wasn’t set up right or my settings on my computer might be holding that feature up!

These no-start situations can be very frustrating.

I suggest you need to do some more troubleshooting on the distributor.

Here Is a test to consider.
- Remove the distributor cap so you can manually open and close the points.
- Disconnect the primary wire that goes from the coil to the distributor.
- connect an ohmmeter to that terminal on the distributor housing and the other lead to the engine block.
- the meter should read no resistance when the points are closed and infinite resistance when the points are open.
- if the meter reads no resistance all the time then the points assembly is not properly insulated from the distributor plate.
- if the reading is infinite all the time there is no continuity from the terminal to the points.

Sometimes the insulated terminal block that connects through the distributor body breaks down and that wire shorts directly to ground through the distributor body. The opening of the points will not stop the current flow through the coil so it will not spark.

Another simple test is to connect a spark plug wire directly to the coil. Connect a spark plug to that wire and ground the body of the spark plug. Turn on the ignition (I assume you have confirmed that you have 6 volts at the input side of the coil). Then connect a jumper wire to the output side of the coil. Ground the other end of the jumper for a few seconds. Then remove it from the ground and see if there is a spark at the plug.

Just some ideas.

Thanks Rusty...I'll give these tests a go tomorrow evening...been wicked hot here in Chicago and my garage is an oven. This has been helpful and I'll see what it shows...you guys are all upping my mechanical game! I appreciate it!

thanks

caf

The test you tried with the light I think you connected incorrectly and looked for the wrong result as well. Connect 1 lead of the light to a good ground point, with the power to the key side of the coil the light should glow, on the points side the light will glow if the points are open (not contacting) but not glow when the points are closed, (electricity is lazy and will always take the easy). If you dont get a light with the points open there is a short circuit or if you get a light with the points closed try scraping a screwdriver accross the points to cause a circuit.
The coil should spark as the points open.

A quick trick is to rub old points with fine emery paper (200 grit or finer) or if you fit new points make sure the is no grease on the contact faces.

Tony

If the reversing switch is still on top of the starter and wired into the distributor it could be the the problem as most failed and were eliminated from the circuit. There are a number of threads on this topic but I’d try this if the switch and wiring are still there connected to an original distributor with two terminals. Using a new piece of wire connect it directly from the negative side of the coil to the distributor terminal closest to the fender. Using another piece of new wire, connect it from the other terminal on the distributor body to a good ground. Then check for spark. Another note, if the distributor was changed at some point in time to a single terminal model, it probably doesn’t use the same points as a 41, ask me how I know

Thanks Tony and Minetto...all good info and I'll restart my testing incorporating this thinking along with other feedback I've received...absorbing like a sponge! I do need to retrace from starting motor switch, all the way through, and "yes", good chance I didn't do that circuit light test right, so I'll re-review.

Several thoughts:
- My starter and the switch on top of it, are to the best of my knowledge "original"
- Coil: not sure if original or not, but I don't think so
- Distributor: original, although the points and condenser I believe are replacements, but probably back in the late '70's or early 80's
- Distributor cap: replacement is my guess, again, back in the '70's / early '80s
- Spark plug wires: same as distributor cap
- Plugs: same as distributor cap...they look great though...AC Delco 10mm plugs etc. and are gap'd correctly.

More to come and I'll do a read out to everyone in the next day or so, definitely by the end of this weekend, as I need to get this thing up and running before my daughter heads back to college (that was the goal...can't fail!)

Much appreciated to the community and the support everyone has shown me...fun, frustrating, and tons of learning keeping these cars going!

Well, here's the latest: She's up and running!

Much thank to everyone and to Mark Yeamans (who PM'd me) for your thoughts, hints and tricks.

Here's how it went down: I continued testing, and redid all the tests and still no spark on #1, even after rechecking TDC on #1. I did finally go through one by one and replaced in this order: coil, plug wires, rotor, distributor cap, condenser, and points. Probably should have started with points, I'm not sure, but after I finished gap'ing the new points at 0.018", resetting the TDC on #1 (and making sure timing "bb" was in the window on the pointer), threw a bit of gas/starter fluid and she fired right up! Some adjustments to the throttle and it sounds great. I'll need to make some additional checks with the timing light and throttle, but overall really pleased with how she sounds. It has been well over 25+ years, probably since the '80's actually when she was started last. The engine having been rebuilt in the late '70's, the overall motor has less than 25 miles on it.

Next step is to put the gas tank and fuel line from the rear to the pump in, along with final brake bleeding/tuning of those. She's up on blocks and no wheels...I shifted her through her gears on blocks and so far it all feels pretty good.

More to come and I'm sure more to ask this community about. I did put in a new thermostat, so I want to check that everything is flowing well through the cooling system, as everything seemed to heat up quickly, and I'm not sure the thermostat at the dash is accurate.

Again, thanks to all for the insights...here are some pics and videos of my daughter and I working away on it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ti7hsret9ig03o5/Video%20Aug%2029%2C%202%2045%2047%20PM%20%281%29.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmzsx4owr6q5p5z/Video%20Aug%2029%2C%202%2041%2012%20PM.mov?dl=0

Just an update: no reversing switch on top of the starter motor either...I could send pics but just the rod connected to the starter pedal and the ”˜button’ with various wires going to it...

Chris,
I’m glad you got your 1941 engine running.
I enjoyed the short videos. Great looking car!

When I first tried starting my 216 engine after it’s fresh rebuild, Mike Deeter drove over from Shreveport to give me a hand. We did all your supposed to do and couldn’t get it to start. It would sort of “burp” and kick backwards.

Long story short, Mike discovered that when I replaced the distributor back on the engine, it was off by one “tooth” on the cam gear (located on the very bottom of distributor main shaft). After we corrected that, she started right up. So, if you ever need to remove your distributor, be aware it’s easy to re-install it a tooth or two off.

Good luck with your 1941 SD project!

Curt

FWIW I had an issue with my '38 not wanting to start easily. It boiled down to being the condenser. They're sure might proud of those things these days. I used to buy them for a couple of bucks and now they're almost twenty.

Each car seems to have a mind of its own! My ignition parts list of: points, distributor cap, "premium" (?) spark plug wire set, rotor, condenser, and coil came to $101.59 (w/ tax) from NAPA here in Chicago. Labor "free"!

On to the next part of this project!

All the best,

chris