VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Are we throwing money away?

Recently when I took my 2012 car in for an oil change, they had a sign up that for $299 they wlould change the oil using full synthitic. For $199 they would do the same amount of oil changes using regular motor oil, 5-20 or so. I thought, "what the heck, I'll go with the synthetic.

Note: I have violated my own thinking here by goinbg with the full synthetic owing to the fact that it is not required or that the engine would or could tell the difference. Another thing. The first time I had it changed by this dealer they told me that it required full synthetic. Afterfards I checked the owner's manual and found that 5-20 was recommended with nothing mentioned about full synthetic.

Anyhow, the question is how do we know that we're getting what we pay for when you can't see them doing the oil change? I suspect that we don't always get the full synthetic.

Do any of you suspect that there any unfair praactices going on with deaer oil changes.

Full synthetic costs a heck of a lot more then the regular menerial oil.

They may show you the cans but how do you know they are not merely susd cans form another oil change.

Doping you can make a heap of money for the dealership. Can too!

Charlie

Note. The superiority of full syenthic over regular motor oit is not my intent here. Getting ripped off is.

Getting ripped off, I say yes.

Sounds like a service contract. How many changes do you get for that?

WHEN I BOUGHT my 2014 Chrysler 300 SRT 6.4 used at 8002 km or about 5000 miles. Reading the manual says I must use 0 W---40, full synthetic. Also said plug change is 16 plugs .

So take short drive to mopar dealer, how much for oil and filter change on this rocket ship that uses 7 liters.........$177.00, ouch. Bye bye will not be back. go to napa........mobil-1 4 liters container on sale 1/2 price $31.00.Needs 2. = $62

google K & N filters, they got a special synthetic filter $7, buy a case.

talk to local garage, apparently there is a large belly panel below the front end that takes 8 screws to take it out. Ya that sounds like fun at 71 lying on back in driveway wrestling with a large panel. Local garage says $32 to do oil change....bingo..

When you do an oil change on these new cars you have to do a reset thru onboard computer system and the car will tell you around 5-6000 miles , change me !!!!

Amazing how far cars have come since my 3---35 chevys were built.

Apparently the transmission does not have a dipstick for checking fluid level, you go into center screen and see what the temp the trans is running. I kid you not

mike

Example....GM cars sshould have the oil changed when the oil monitor on the dash indicates. Could be between 4000 and 8000 miles, deoending on driving conditions such as cold weather and/or short trip driving.
GM specifies an oil approved by them and will have the Dexose emblem displayed on the container. Dexose oil is approved by GM and the oil company must pay GM for the use of the name. There are oils that could/would qualify for using the Dexose name but the oil companies refuse to pay GM for the use. In this case as long as the oil lable states the oil is rate for service SN and also GF-5 it is "good" oil.
Dexose is a blend of conventional and synthetic oils designed for a longer oil change intervul.That beeing said you could use an oil that is the old SM -GF4 but then a shorter oil change intervul would be necessary.
I buy full synthetic oil when it is on sale and change my own oil (I am 84 years old).
There are several"types" of synthetic oils. Some are true synthetics and some lower priced synthetics are "re-engineered" conventional oil synthetics. There is no indication on the lable as to which is which and the US governament said this is OK. In Europe is must be displayed as to how the oil is "made".
As an example Mobil makes three different levels of synthetic oil. Low priced Mobil Super, Mobil !,Mobil 1 Advanced, and Mobil ! Extended Performance. They say the Extended performanc can be run 15,000 miles or one year before changing..
Some GM vehicles had the oil monitor set for over 10,000 mile periods and engine damage occured. The computor was (or should be) reset for more frequent changing. This error cost Gm a lot of piston and timing change replacements.

In general any over head cam engine should have the oil changed by at least 5000 miles using a SN/GF-5 oil.

Thanks for the replies. Nonetheless, this thread is the slippery slope of going off on a tangent that was not intended.

To bring things back a bit, I merely question the integerity of some dealers who are in the business of changing oil for you and selling you something you don't need. After they have sold you on the syntheltic they may not actually put it in your car. How are you to know?

Changing your own oil? I don't think so. Changing every 15k, I don't think so. Synthetic can get just a dirty as regular motor oil.

Tiny, I'm supposed to get 5 oil changes on the $299 deal. It's at a Toyoto Dealer. The closest Lexus dealer is in Raleigh.

I have no clue as to what really went into my engine.

Gene, you named 4 different typess of Mobil synbthic not three. But who's counting.

Charlie

My old 216 appreciates an oil change every now and then. It likes Wal-mart 10w-30 just fine. This is not for argument sakes it is just the way I'm programed. Besides, A 216v will leak or burn about 5 quarts every 3K.

I still say that if you're getting oil changed at a dealer or a popular national oil change shop you are more than likely getting the same oil from a tank that everyone else is.

The neeed for synthetic is nothing more than a sales gimmick.

Let's stick to the question: How do you know you're getting your money's worth when you think you're getting full synthetic. Beats me.

If you have to question the integrity of the dealer you are using then it's time to go elsewhere. The only way to know what they put in your car is to send a sample out for oil analysis and that can be expensive.

I think you're right on.

You can change the oil yourself and there is no warranty or you can let the dealer put anything in and there is. Owner's call.

Charlie

5 oil changes for $299 would be $60 a change. Toyota probably gets $10 for and oil filter - that would leave $50 for 5 Qts. of full synthetic oil or $10 a quart. Kind of high.
Was jst talking last week with one of the shop owners I call on.
He services a lot of Corvettes that require Mobil !. He buys his Mobile ! at Walmart for around 5$ a Quart because it costs much more than that from his regular oil suppliers.
The new car dealers I call on seem to e honest in using the proper synthetic oil.If you go to a cheap oil change place just make sure the oil tey put in is rated SN-GF5 if you have a later year vehicle.

dealers make their money on service not on sales. ALL dealers are rip-offs---period. They will tell you your air filter needs replacing and the one they show you most likely did not come off of your car. It's a pure scam. I'm so tired of replacing low tire pressure sensors in the wheels (2014 Jeep Patriot) that i don't even care if the light on the dash comes on or not. I can plainly see that the tires are fine.
Will be buying a mid 60's Chevy soon and ditching the Jeep. Ed Bittman VCCA#47508 Dade City,fl

Most dealers are honest however there are some that are not. However I think part of the problem is there is no easy or inexpensive way to check some items. I took my wifes car to the dealer to get the "loss leader oil change" where they then do a free inspection of the car and then advise what it needs. I am convinced they only look at the mileage and recommended service interval rather than inspection. I have an independent garage that I trust do my service work and even after they had flushed the brake fluid and antifreeze (less than 5000 miles) the dealer advised they were dirty and contaminated. I change the engine and cabin filter every 2 years and about 10000miles but every time the dealer checks "they are dirty and need changing". Sometimes if it's close to being two years they are correct but I can do those myself for $25.00 instead of $80.00. Both can be done in about 10 minutes total at the most. I feel bad for those who don't have any mechanical experience as my $25.00 oil change came with a $1500.00 maintenance recommendation.

Changing your own oil will not void a warranty you just need a record when done. Not all dealers are a rip off. Many independent shops are rip offs. After working in 2 GM dealers and owning my shop for 24 years you can not paint everyone with the same brush. I had a customer once tell me you have to be able to trust your doctor and mechanic. The problem with today's cars are they go to long without needing service, and they do tend to upsell to try and make a decent return on investment, don't forget they have to pay someone to do that oil change, and pay benefits also.

I'm with you Steve !

I do want to note the dealer is not a GM dealer. My wifes car is a Honda. While I have been very satisfied with their service I only use them for the oil change and/or warranty work. She only drives about 5000 miles a year so once a year it goes in for an oil change and they do their once over and then I either do the suggested repairs myself or take it to a trusted independent shop. One item that needs attention is the rear brakes and they quoted $550.00 for rotors and pads installed. Good quality parts run about $150.00 so that allows $400.00 for labor which a flat rate mechanic should be able to do in an hour. I have no idea what their hourly rate is but at $400.00 it seems a tad bit high.

Steve that does sound high, it would be nice to see the what they were charging for the parts and labor.

Post did not adhere to site policy and therefore eliminated.

The above post is completely off target. Perhaps Sebastian is unaware of the intent of our chat site? Might his post be removed?

Thanks, Mike

Mike,
The post was deemed inappropriate and eliminated. A PM sent to Sebastian to start a dialog if he wishes.

For years I’ve done my own work but found oil changes can be purchased for less than the cost of me doing it. I have had two run-ins with dealers that really ticked me off. One was over 22 years ago with a Toyota dealer. I had just done a 4 wheel brake job on my girlfriend’s, now my wife’s Corolla, and she took it to the dealer for their oil change and courtesy inspection. When she walked in to get her car the guy behind the counter actually told her she needed brakes. She came outside and got me and needless to say, my conversation with them got pretty heated. I made them put the car on the lift and got the service manager along with the tech who noted the brakes were bad to look at them with me. They saw a pretty girl and a car with X amount of mileage with no record of brakes being done then just assumed they were worn out. #2 was within a year ago but with my 2014 Honda Accord. Oil change courtesy check also showed brakes were shot. This time I knew they were but I was told both rear calipers were frozen and needed replacement. The cost with labor, pads, new rotors, and rear calipers, $2000 with genuine Honda parts!
I got the car home, put it up on my lift and found all 4 aluminum wheels were stuck on the rotors, none had been removed for inspection. Went down to the auto parts guy and got all the parts but he told me the calipers were fine. He said just hit the rotating puck with a hammer and turn it back in, no need for the special tool they sell. Went home, removed the rears which again, had never been physically checked, did what my auto parts guy said to do, and installed all parts minus the calipers as mine were fine. Went back to the dealer and gave the service manager a talking to in front of a full waiting room of customers. You should have seen his face when I told him I took the car home and put it up on my lift! He said, “you have a lift”. Total price of brake job was just under $500.
So with all that, I mainly have only warranty work done and oil changes when the run their coupon specials. BUT, I do pull the dip stick before I drive out because dealers have been known to short you a half quart and those add up. I know this by experience also.

Just had my Silverado with 8000 miles in to the dealer for en engine light on. They replaced an oxygen sensor under warranty and then advised on the QT that it probably shouldn't have been covered as I has the truck undercoated recently and that may have been the cause of the failure. I checked with the Mfg. of the undercoat and it is actually a good electrical insulator much like dielectric grease.

Just happened this week. Took my Honda in for an oil change because I had a $20 off coupon. Car has been losing battery lately and it original so I tell them to check it out. Service writer tells me it’s included in the free systems check. Get a call the next day to tell me battery is bad, alternator belt is cracked and dry, tires are basically gone, passenger side caliper is not setting the parking brake, and car needs a sticker. Also says the car needs a rear diff service. All totaled up, $2,8xx.!
So needles to say I’m not happy and ask for each item cost. Factory battery and check is $215 but car will need to have all computer reset because of loss of power, another $129. I immediately get BS and tell him to turn the key on, power the car through the cigarette lighter outlet, disconnect battery, and put new one in. He said that didn’t work with the new cars and I told him BS again, that my buddy with an auto body shop does it all the time and he has a special power box designed for it. Then he says the belt is $117 and installation is another $90. I tell him forget it. The tires I knew were bad and he tells me $139 each. So I agree to do them. The caliper is $590 plus another $200 or so labor because they do a special pressure brake fluid change! I said forget it, your crazy. Said he couldn’t do sticker because of bad caliper. Then the “rear” diff fluid change on a front wheel drive car! I told him I was disgusted with them the last time and now again.
I ended up getting the battery, no computer reset charge, the tires, and an oil change, still just under a grand. Went to the auto parts shop that I’ve been buying parts from for over 40 years. Gates belt, $31, rear caliper, not Honda but supposed to be high quality, $112 after I take the core back. Got home installed the belt in less than 10 minutes and took a good look at the belt. Not one crack or dry check mark on it. None of the ribs missing any material either. Another lie. Tomorrow I intend to look at the caliper when I put it up on the lift. This dealer to me is a rip off if you let them be.

That's crappy.

I usually set the expectation up front and tell them that both my lifts are tied up with cars on them so "ONLY look at ABCD, and don't look or touch anything else". This seems to make them aware that I may be very difficult to upsell. Most experiences seem just fine after this.

I've found Ford and Chevy dealers have been the least irritating for upselling. Honda has been the worst and I had an estimate once where they literally quoted replacing every bolt, washer and nut they removed - it was bizarre. They obviously circled the problem area in the parts manual and made a list.

I only use dealers for specialized work like strange OB2 codes or a 12 hour broken exhaust manifold stud replacement on our truck with aluminum heads. I could do it but I called and they had a guy that actually did several a week and not worth the risk of a small shop trying to drill out the studs.

It sure would be a better world if people treated each other as they would like to be treated. Unfortunately there are too many out there that try to take advantage of what others don't understand or don't have the capability to do. The automotive business has been a leader in this practice for generations. Sites like Chat are one way that those practices can be brought to light and others aware of the scams and upselling. I have found that a higher percentage of collector car people treat each other with respect and honesty.

As an example I have been rebuilding early Chevrolet carburetors for 20+ years. People send me their carburetor and trust me to give them back a fully functional unit at a reasonable cost.They are amazed that I don't require a deposit or prepayment. I tell them that they trusted a person they do not know with their carburetor so why can't I trust them to pay for the repairs? My goal is to keep these old Chevrolets on the road. Of nearly 1000 rebuilds only two have failed to send back a check if they are satisfied when they get their carburetor back with an invoice.