VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 38 steering box issue

I have a 38 master deluxe and i have a steering box issue. With the car up on jack stands when I turn the steering all the way (does not matter the direction) it moves smoothly to the end but when I turn the wheel back the other direction I will get about 1/4 a turn and the steering locks solid. When I say locks solid think of a modern car locking with the key out. If I wiggle the steering when back and forth I can sometimes get it to move freely. I can also fix the issue by manually moving the tire in the stuck direction. I have rebuilt the steering box: new worm gear bearings, new sector shaft and bushings, new seal and a different worm gear as mine was very worn. When I put it together on the bench I had the same issue. I have taken the box apart more times than I can count and not found any issues. I installed it in the car hoping for a different result and no luck. I did the adjustment process as it is outlined in the shop manual many times with it on the bench and in the car. When i bought the car it was not running so I am not sure if the issue existed before. Any ideas? Thanks

Matt, I have a 38 Master box assembly, not sure if it is the same as Master delux. If it is, could sell it to you or you could play with it if you would like.

Thanks but the Master and the Mater Deluxe steering boxes are different.

I can imagine that this is driving now you crazy.

You stated that you used a different worm gear. I assume it was not a new one so it has some wear. This means that you have a mesh between a new sector and a worn worm. That can produce some interesting results.

My thinking is that there is enough wear that when you set the mesh in the straight ahead (gears centered) position that you have created a binding condition at either ends of travel.

As a test increase the clearance between the worm and sector in the center position. That is the third adjustment you make in the sequence. I assume you did the adjustments in sequence and used a spring scale or torque wrench to measure the increasing resistance for each adjustment.

Then run it from end to end.

The 1938 Master Deluxe has a 17:1 ratio and is one model only.
The Standard box will interchange complete but has a ratio of 19:1
and the parts are different.
A bearing may be loose in the sector shaft causing it to hit the
side of the case. Lou

Remember that the steering gear is just one part of the overall steering system. The ratio of the steering box is one part of the overall ratio between the steering wheel and the angle that the front wheels turn.

I would not be surprised to learn that the 2 boxes will physically interchange between an Master and a Master Deluxe. The ratio difference is over 10% which should be noticeable especially for turning at low speeds. The pitman arms are different for the 2 boxes. The rest of the steering linkage is significantly different due to the difference between a straight axle and a knew action front end.

Rusty,

Yes I did do the adjustments in the sequence specified in the shop manual. I did not use a spring gauge just a calibrated finger.

I did try increasing the clearance between the sector roller and the worm gear and that made it better but did not stop the issue. I also did shim the steering box to the frame rail so that it was not possibly binding when I tighten the steering box to frame rail bolts.

After adjustment the steering wheel will move smoothly to the end of travel it is only on changing direction that I get the binding.

I agree that it most likely the sector roller not meshing with the worm gear correctly that is causing the issue. Any ideas on how to fix that?

Thanks,
Matt

Thanks for the additional information. I just did a full rebuild on the steering box in my ”˜37 so know how tricky what appears to be simple can be.

Do some simple steps to determine how far the box travels compared to how far the steering travels.

I did this in my car because I wanted to confirm what was the center of the steering gear and what was straight ahead for driving. They are not the same in my car.

The other point I learned is that the steering gear alone will travel further than the full steering system. The shop manual cautions against running the box against the end of travel in the box. In the car there should be steering stops that prevent the gears from traveling that far.

The geometry of the gear sector to worm mesh is such that it is impossible to maintain good tooth contact and leverage through the full range of travel.

My guess is that your steering stops are damaged/missing and the box will travel too far.

Great info Rusty.

Rusty,

I don' think i have seen any steering stops. Where are they located?

Thanks,
Matt

On my 38 truck the stops are held in place by the cotter pins/bolts the lock the king pins/bolts in place in the solid axle ends. I would guess the sedans are much the same.
Tony

Sorry for the delayed response. Was busy helping paint parts for a ”˜49 3100 yesterday.

Hopefully Gene will jump in and help us with this.

Matt’s car has a knee action front suspension unless it was converted to a straight axle.

I could not determine what controls the front spindle turn limits for that front suspension from either the parts catalog or the shop manual

I agree with Tony that on a straight axle the stops are mounted on the bolts that lock the kingpins in place.

One of mine was bent apparently from some type of impact to the wheel. That allowed the steering wheel to turn the steering gear too far in that direction. I would get some binding at the limit similar to what Matt is experiencing.

I have not been close to knee action suspension to know how they are setup so my comments may well be irrelevant.
Tony

I think I have solved the issue. I have 3 steering shafts, the original, the one I have been using that is causing problems and a third. The one I was not using has a key for connecting to the steering wheel (37) and I was using the one with splines (38). So I took the keyed one and put it is the spare steering box and used a new sector shaft and it did not bind. So I took the one in the car out and put in the keyed shaft and it did not bind when testing on the work bench. So Rusty got it when he said that there is some interference with the new sector shaft and old worm gear. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Matt