I need lots of help. I have a 36 master deluxe 4 door with enclosed trunk. The differential and drive shaft are shot. I have it all disassembled but I'm not sure that the parts that came out are correct for a master. The drive shaft pinion end adapter internal splines are nearly gone. The pinion shaft looks like its for a standard instead of a master based on the pictures in my 35 manual. One of the carrier bearings is bad and the pinion gear end pinion shaft bearing is shot/fell apart on disassembly. I don't know how to post pictures here but I can send pictures. Is there any one who can help me find parts or another whole rear end/torque tune and verify that what I have is correct? The casting number on the third member is 77707 on the left side and 33I600I on the other side. The end of the pinion shaft has the following stamped into the gear end: 7-36 3777715-9-37 GM. The carrier bearing is a Fafnir 0100C Thrust marked on it. The carrier has a raised area with 191 cast on it. Pinion has 9 teeth, ring gear has 37. Pinion shaft is 10 spline. Any help or information will be greatly appreciated.
How bad do the gears look? Also check for loose rivets, and if all that is ok, check to see if the ring gear runs straight with the case (the piece the gear is rivet to) sitting on v-blocks. I have seen bent ones.
Standard parts shouldn't fit a Master at all. There is a huge difference in size.
I think you will be replacing all those bearings anyway if you find another axle. I have disassembled four of them and all were ticking time bombs. All had at least one bad bearing. Carrier bearings were New Departure 0100 originally, and are no longer made. They are ball bearings and will lock and spin when they fail. The carrier bearings for a 40s to mid 50s 1/2 ton (and maybe even newer) are tapered roller bearings, and will fit. They are also no longer made, but are easier and cheaper to find, and are probably a better choice.
The front pinion bearing is still made, the rear pinion bearing isn't, and can be two different styles depending on early or late production.The early one is a ball bearing and the late one is a "Hyatt" style roller. They do not interchange.
The Filling Station probably has bearings in stock, or you could troll Ebay, NOS bearings do come up. You will have to research bearing numbers a bit if you go the ebay route.
Carrier bearings are some form of 11445 (ka-11445-z? kb-11445-z?). Mine were Bower kb-11445. Front pinion bearing is a 5206 (there may be several versions, heavy duty etc.) Rear pinion bearing (if late production) is a Hyatt OR-1506. My replacement was a Bower C-1506. R-1506-EL might be the same thing in Timken.
If you have the early rear pinion bearing, I don't know anything about those other than it would be the same as used in 35.
The bearing closest to the pinion gear was a Hyatt single row roller type bearing CR 1506 marked on the outer race, Maybe what I'm seeing as a "C" is really an "O". The carrier bearing is a single row ball bearing Fafnir 0100C Thrust marked on the outer race. Right now my biggest problem is I have a bad drive shaft adapter end. The internal splines are almost completely gone. I wish I could post pictures here. The drive shaft is 52 1/4" long. The torque tube measures 49 1/2" from the attachment to the 3rd member casting to the end of the tube.
I agree that you are getting some good advice here. It does seem like you have quite a few issues going on with the rear axle.
You might want to consider joining VCCA so you have access to more support. First of all, as a VCCA member you can post photos which will help us solve your problems. The bigger advantage is that you will have access to the Technical Adviser for 1936 cars.
The links you added are asking for a login and password.
It's very easy to attach pictures except the maximum picture size is 2MB. If you have an iphone you can forward the picture to yourself and the phone will allow you to select the size.
Click on "use full editor" box just below quick reply box/typing area. View will change and then click on "attachment manager" Click on "select file" to browse your computer and pick the file you want. Click "done" when you've attached all your pictures.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
If you're open to the idea, here's a way to get a better gear ratio and have better parts availability for that rear axle you will be assembling and installing on your '36.
The bearings for the Chevy car rear axles are the same in the 1937-54 time span so the availability should be better and the prices lower. I've had that 3.55 gear set in my '36 PU for years now. 4.11 gears might have been well suited for the roads of 1936 but 3.55 gears are better suited now.
The process I describe in that VCCA article linked above (it was submitted to the forum by someone else) requires welding and machining skills but no fancy equipment. I did it using a 1949 10" Atlas lathe and an ancient Absco AC buzz box stick welder. "Setting up" the ring gear and pinion is simple with a few basic tools and an assortment of pinion bearing shims. Don't believe anyone who tells you you can't do it.
The attached is what is shown in my 1935 manual. I would expect it to be the same for 36. The pinion shaft is different in the picture than what came out of my third member. I don't know if what came out is correct for the Master or not.
Your book probably shows the early 35 setup with a ball bearing at the back of the pinion? Later they used the OR-1506 roller.
The damage to the back of the pinion face is because the OR-1506 bearing walked out of its bore, or was not all the way in in the first place. I might put a drop of loctite on reassembly, and make absolutely sure it is pushed all the way in.
Your pinion looks hosed, but it is kind of hard to tell from the pics. The damage to the back face is probably not a big deal, but it appears the surface the OR-1506 runs on is shot. Is it smooth and can you measure it? There is a 38 shop manual on oldcarmanualproject, and the dimension will be the same as the 1938 1/2 ton truck (but not early 1935, it used a ball bearing there).
If the pinion is toast, you have to replace the ring too, and at that point a used set out of another car or truck makes more sense, though I gather you are having trouble finding one. The trouble with using new parts (if you could find them) is riveting the ring gear. Nobody will do it. You could bolt it with aircraft shear bolts, and loctite the flange (thats what I did), but I have not run it, and I don't have much confidence in it until I do.
The ring, pinion, and case (the case is the part the ring gear rivets to) can be from any 36 Master (and maybe late 1935 Master), or any 36-39 1/2 ton truck (and maybe late 1935 1/2 ton). The driveshaft does need to be 36 IIRC. I believe the 1937-39 1/2 ton truck driveshafts are too long. That spline socket in the end would match though.
I think a good truck machine shop could rivet new parts, they have the experience and tools to do the job. I found a new ring and pinion set on Epay so you could keep an eye peeled and find a set. If I could ever find where I stashed it I would offer it up.
I think it would be OK to bolt it. I worked in heavy truck parts for 46 years and since the 70's the ring gears in the axles were bolted. We did rivet some in the early 70's and later all were bolted whether they originally were riveted or not. You could check with a vendor that supplies gear sets to see if they sell bolt kits or would advise what bolts to use.
I have been down that rabbit hole as deep as it goes, and nobody has any answers. Yes there are bolt kits for heavy equipment that was originally riveted, but those are all larger bolts than a Chevrolet. Additionally, there is no guarantee that all the holes are perfectly positioned, and if they are not, then a few bolts will take all the load. Also, the riveting process stretches the holes in the case a little bit making them slightly larger than the holes in the ring gear, because the ring gear is harder. Lastly, the holes are not perfectly uniform because they were never intended to contact machined parts.
For what its worth, GM did offer a set of special bolts for use when riveting equipment was not available. It was not the preferred method.
Quote
I think a good truck machine shop could rivet new parts, they have the experience and tools to do the job. I found a new ring and pinion set on Epay so you could keep an eye peeled and find a set. If I could ever find where I stashed it I would offer it up.
I talked to all the truck repair shops and machine shops in my area, and several out of the area. As near as I can tell, this service is decades gone. If you know of some particular shop that can accomplish this, please post it. I have already gone down the bolt route, with the flange and bolts drenched in red loctite, so I am committed to bolts now, but if the service exists somewhere it sure could be useful to others who read this thread in the future, and possibly to the original poster of this thread.
Quote
I think it would be OK to bolt it. I worked in heavy truck parts for 46 years and since the 70's the ring gears in the axles were bolted. We did rivet some in the early 70's and later all were bolted whether they originally were riveted or not. You could check with a vendor that supplies gear sets to see if they sell bolt kits or would advise what bolts to use.
I sure hope it's ok, because thats what I have done. The ring and pinion outfits were no help with this issue. This is so far away from what they do now. There was some heavy equipment that was originally riveted in recent times, that is now bolted (I forgot which brand, but maybe Case/IH). I went to the local dealer and got a blank look. After screwing around with traditional sources for over a year and getting nowhere, I found a guy who has revived the art of riveting, and can do structural riveting. He was going to do it. Then, he was going to have to make special tooling to do it because the rivets were so close to the case. I consented to pay for that, but then he decided he wasn't comfortable doing it at all. He suggested bolting it....
I will have a lot more confidence in the bolts after it has been on the road a couple of years, assuming it doesn't blow up.
The main reason I brought this up is, in my opinion, if the original poster can come up with a used ring and pinion, where the ring gear is still riveted to the case, and the rivets have not come loose, he will be miles ahead.
EDIT2: A Pontiac enthusiast I know (who also has a 1936 rear axle of this design) had a machinist thread the holes in the ring gear, so it could be bolted in the manner modern ring gears are. His is not on the road yet either, so I don't know yet how it worked out.
