VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt Update on 6 Volt Starter Issue

The owner is back in town. I asked him about the starter, and he explained that in the seven years he has owned the car it hasn't turned over well enough that it can be started hot. (Normal operating temperature) without sitting for about 20 to 30 minutes In addition, when cold it turns very slowly but with a shot of ether it always starts. I asked him what steps he had taken. 1. He took the original starter in for rebuild, made no difference. 2. He purchased a new battery, made no difference. 3. He purchased a new (perhaps rebuilt) 6 Volt starter, it made no difference. So he just lived with the problem.

OK, that is not the way a 1952 Chevrolet was designed and I know of many Chevrolet 235 engines that start just fine on 6 volts, so something else is going on here. To re-cap, In addition to what the owner has done, 1. I installed new properly sized battery cables for a 6 volt system. I sanded the attach points, cleaned the battery posts. 2. Having experienced an issue with the actual starter not grounding to the bell housing, I removed the starter, sanded the entire area on both the starter and bell housing where the starter mounts, so I know I have a good ground. 3. I checked to be sure the engine is not binding, it turns freely.

At this point I just don't know what else to check. One of my techniques over the years when I ran into issues such as this is to write down everything that could possibly cause the problem. Of course I have addressed several of them, but here goes again. 1. Poor battery connections to battery cable. 1a. Improper size battery or defective battery 2. Incorrect size cables. 3. Bad connection at the termination ends of the cables. 4. Bad connection between starter and bell housing. 5. Poor starter assembly/rebuild. 6. Incorrect starter for the application. 7. Some interference between the point of grounding the battery negative cable and the starter.

To summarize, I have addressed 1; 1a; 2; 3; 4; Relative to 5, since both the original starter and the new/rebuilt starter have the same issue, I doubt that both were at fault, but will take it to a starter shop for investigation. Relative to 6, same comment as 5, but in addition everything about the starter says it is correct. 7. It is hard to believe there can be high resistance in a solid cast iron head and block assembly. I suppose it is remotely possible there is poor connection between the engine and the bell housing, so tomorrow I will attach a cable to the body of the starter and run it directly to the battery just to eliminate that scenario.

Any ideas what I have missed or what else I need to check? One other thought comes to my mind. Neither I nor the owner knows any past history of the car. I wonder if it is possible someone installed an incorrect flywheel and the starter gear is binding? Any ideas will be most welcome.

I guess I would ask what is defined as "turning over too slowly". These old sixes will fire at fairly slow cranking speeds. It could be that the ignition spark isn't up to par during cranking. You could check that by powering the coil from another source such as a battery charger as a test. Also sometimes the carburetor will provide too rich a mixture due to a little flooding. My approach to that problem is to sit for a minute or so with the gas pedal to the floor and then without moving it, work the starter.

If there is a concern that there may be a connection problem or high resistance somewhere, that point will create a lot of heat while the current is flowing.

I posted a reply with a couple thoughts in the '49-'54 section where you cross-posted. Hope it helps.

Got it, thanks

OLD 216, saw your other post, thanks. You have given me some ideas to further check. To define "Slow Turning," I would say it turns at best about 30% of normal. It will hit compression when warm, pause 2 to 3 seconds, groan past and repeat at next compression. Yes indeed, the amperage pull is so great that I don't think there is enough voltage to fire the coil. It does start reasonably well when cold, although it still pauses momentarily at each compression stroke. I will try your idea of using an auxiliary power source wired direct to coil but I am sure it will fire just fine with a full 6 volts at coil. By the way, that is a trick we used on the farm during -15 degree weather in north west Iowa back in the 1950's, The old Oliver tractor 6 volt battery ignition system would not fire a single time until the battery was run down. We developed the concept of pulling the choke and cranking the engine with the starter until we had it pretty well dripping in gasoline, then using the hand crank it would start almost instantly with the full power of the battery hitting the coil

Mixture may play some role, but with the ignition switch turned off (in order to completely eliminate the possibility of fast timing) there was absolutely no difference in engine cranking speed. I don't really think it is a mixture issue as it won't crank at proper speed even when cold. Also, when I was checking the main bearings, I could turn the engine with my hand on a connecting rod throw with virtually no resistance, but even then when I would engage the starter the engine turned slow, so I am leaning toward some kind of binding between the starter and ring gear.

.The big confusing issue to me is that the owner has had this problem for 7 years! However; as nice a guy as he is, he has almost ZERO mechanical comprehension, so I really have to question him carefully to get history and then is is often suspect. He bought the car to me originally with #5 rod BANGING LOUDLY. He initially asked me how fast he should drive it the 20 miles to my shop. I emphatically told him to have it trailered! When trying to describe what a "Loose Rod" meant, he listened for a while then asked "just what is a rod?" Not saying this to belittle the man, it just makes it harder to get accurate historical information.

I will use your idea of feeling every connection to test for heat buildup -- as well as any other suggestion you may have.

I would try to find a 1954 3 field starter. I believe your problem is the starter and tests never seem to detect this problem.

Wow that is slow. I would be trying another starter too.

I had the same issue with my 1946 two ton COE 6 volt. Pulled the starter and had it rebuilt at my local shop two months ago. Then added a huge 0000 positive wire and 00 ground wire made at batterycablesusa.com. Cleaned bolts, housing and connections points. I really can't believe how fast it turns over now. So my vote is that you should have the starter rebuilt too.

The starter is at the rebuild shop now for evaluation and recommendation. Although it appears to be perfectly clean inside and out, suggesting a recent rebuild, no way to know if the re builder was competent or not. Thanks for all the input.

Ron

Ron, you can never have too many ground wires on a Chevy. Hendo

On my 38 Master, I have cables made from welding cable by the previous owner. It turns over really well.

also on the grounds, does NOT matter how big the cables are if you do NOT have a good solid METAL to METAL connection. i stripped the frame rail down where my ground goes, put in the cable and new hardware, and then painted the frame around the ground connection. i also used a carbon electric grease to ensure a good solid connection and protection from corrosion.

you have seen my videos in other post about starter as to speed it turns. before new cables and cleaning up ground mine was slower than that !! but it has NO problem starting the car at any time.

Carbon brushes fitted instead of copper?

We had a 51 p/u lot beater on the farm that would not turn over fast enough to start and had to be pushed so one day I played with the timing and it started with the starter from then on.