VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Start Up Problems

I started my complete overhaul of my engine, transmission, and rear end in February of this year. The engine ran smoothly at the time, although weak, due to lack of compression. It idled and accelerated without any hitch. Now that everything is back together, the engine will not run beyond what gas I pour into the throat of the carb. Runs really well for a few seconds then dies for lack of fuel. Checked the delivery from the pump and it seemed a little erratic. So I replaced the fuel pump with a Carter M751. Good gas delivery to fuel filter ahead of the Carter W1. Checked the filter-clean and open. Oiled the linkage under the cover. Tapped on the cast iron body with a ball peen- gently. Is there something I could try aside from replacing the carb? It literally had no leaks or problems before. Anybody out there ever experience this situation? BTW it's a '50 216. Thanks, Roger

I would guess there is a blockage in the carburetor from the dried old fuel, best to remove the carb and clean it out.
Tony

Roger,
It sounds like your Carter carburetor is need of a rebuild or replacement.

I had my 216 engine rebuilt several years ago and purchased a rebuilt Carter W1 from Chevys of the 40's. When I finally was at the point of starting the engine for the first time, I was having carburetor problems. The carburetor was already about 3 years old when I finally used it.

It was running erratically and I had to pull the choke way out just to limp down the road.

Long story short, after talking to Mike Deeter, he suggested I make sure the low speed and high speed jet was not blocked. I believe it is the outlet check valve and inlet check valve. After taking it all apart, cleaning with carb cleaner and blowing out with compressed air, it was a success. I did find the little ball-bearing check valves packed with rust, debris. They weren't doing what they were supposed to do.

This fuel problem was from a refurbished Carter W1. There is a chance the rebuilder didn't replace these check valves or clean them.

If it was me, I'd get a rebuilt carburetor from a reputable source. Rebuilding them yourself with a kit is another option, but, you already had your engine rebuilt-get a good carburetor.

Good luck,
Curt

The intake and outlet check valves are for the accelerator pump circuit . They hold gas in the pump passage and when you step on the gas it can squirt out of the accelerator pump nozzel. This area can be defective and engine will run perfectly at a steady sped but die out on acceleration.

Rog40: If it were mine the first thing would do is find a known good carburetor from a friend and give that a try. If nothing changes probably not the carburetor. I myself would take the
carburetor apart and clean the jets and passage ways with a good cleaner, and blow out the passages, jets , with compressed air, then re-assemble.
If that works you'll be fine and if not , looks like a rebuild will be in the future !
Best Of Luck

Are you able to see it spray gas when you pump the accelerator rod on the carb with the engine stopped? I am not sure if that is visible on the W1 but I thought I would ask.

It is the carburetor and it's all on me. When I set it on the shelf, I thought it would only be a month or so until I could get the engine back in. WRONG! It was six months before I got the block and head back from the machine shop. I didn't drain the gas from the bowl. The ethanol, I suppose, drew moisture into the gas and a rusty mess ensued. Could be wrong, but I've never seen gasoline rust something so thoroughly that was stored in a sealed garage. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, but didn't drain. A precautionary tale for others?

Now I would like to know what to use to dissolve rust on cast iron? I have a rebuild kit on the way and the carb is simple, so I'm going to rebuild it myself. Couldn't be as bad as some four barrels I've worked on in the past. Anyway, I have a couple of W1's for spares in case things head south. I truly appreciate everyone pitching in. Roger

Maybe some Evapo-Rust and soak it overnight then wash it thoroughly.

Never even heard about Evapo-Rust. I'll investigate it. Thanks.

A dental cleaning tool (sharp pick) will help get the bigger rust debris loose and the careful use of a Dremel tool with the appropriate wire brush fitting will help to remove rust off iron, liquid wrench, carb cleaner and compressed air. Gasoline works too.

Painters down here use "deoxidine" for surface rust so it may well work for you.
Tony

I got my Evapo-Rust at Tractor Supply. If you have access to a soda blast set up that also works good and the clean up is a simple water wash. If it's plugged really bad might be best to send it out for a professional rebuild or exchange.

Evapo-rust can work really well for light rust. It's unusual since it seems so non-volatile like using your morning coffee to remove rust. You just have to let it sit often overnight. The gelled version has not worked for me but liquid works great.

If you have crusty rust, phosphoric acid (Ospho is one brand) can be worked into the area to remove it.

If the gunk is due to ethanol, you may need a few different products like carb cleaner/acetone, each to remove part of the gunk without allowing chemicals or gunk to enter ports.

In the process of researching the carb, I found it's a 1940 W1 with a 420 tag. There are mentions of carburetor finish or paint. Was the cast iron only painted? Looks like the steel parts were all plated, maybe with the exception of the linkage cover. Anybody familiar with the finish. I've gone this far I might as well go there too. Thanks, Roger

Theiro houing and little cover were black. The brass plugs, etc. in the iron casting were not painted.

The cast iron carburetor bodies were painted. Three colors were used. Most are a semi or matte black. However three other colors were also used Brown, Gray and Olive Green. The colors were on economy, standard and military versions. The stamped steel covers are black on all except the military. Other small parts are natural (brass & die-cast [pot metal]) or plated steel. I can't think of any exceptions but Jon may know of some and correct me.

I tried the Evapo-Rust on the W1 and I want to tell you it is the bomb. Cleans that cast iron like new. Wash with water, no residue, no scale, just clean metal. One last problem: the
accelerator pump tube is slightly scored. I want to replace( think I have a spare part) but how to get the old one out and the new one in. Pressed in I think. No pin obvious.

The brass tube is pressed into the float bowl. An expanding puller can pull it out. One can be made from washers, rubber stopper and center bolt that should work. There are also metal ones but they are hard to find. Of all the W-1s I have rebuilt none required replacement of the pump tube. Good luck.

Rog40,

That stinkin' ethanol again, huh?

I wonder what would have happened had ethanol free gasoline merely dried up and the same moisture had entered? Pristine condition I suppose.

There is literally no faults that cannot be traced back to ethanol even if it's merely standing around in the corner and minding its own beeswax

Good thing there now is ethanol. Else we would have to keep blaming gremlins and saying "I just don't know."

Best,

Charlie

You may be correct. I just never expected that bowl to rust like that in such a short time(six months+). I never have had any fuel system problems with modern gas and I've had this car for 12 years. I always add a little Sta-Bil with each addition of fuel. I have a glass bowl filter ahead of the carb and have never seen a drop of water in the bowl. So I don't know. Regards, Roger

WHAT ELSE? I got the carb back together with a new kit from Daytona Parts Co. in Florida. The gasket for between the air horn and base is missing. Also the metering rod disc is missing. I stuffed a rag in the air horn and blew compressed air in. Leaked all the way around the union. I can't talk to a human at DPC to find out what the specs on the gasket are. Might be able to make one.

Just received a reply and they say the metering rod disc is not part of the kit and there is no air horn gasket (which the forty shop manual says "Don't forget"). Lots of vague info.

I am a little late but I would trust a Carb Shop kit above all others. Jon does check this forum from time to time and may be able to offer advise. I have a few old, dried out kits and may be able to provide a questionable gasket if all else fails but I am not sure what the metering rod disk looks like but I may have it. A picture would help.

Dave

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Fuelleak//

Thanks Dave!

Air horn gasket:

1932~1938 - not used
1939~1949 - Carter part number 20-71 (small round gasket which is fitted in the recess in the top of the cast iron bowl where the chamber of the air horn fits). This part should be in rebuilding kits.

None of the W-1's used by Chevrolet used an air horn gasket that surrounded the air horn such as other carburetors, only the small round gasket.

Metering rod disk (a.k.a. dust seal):

While these were originally used by Carter, we DELIBERATELY omit them from our kits. WHY? I cannot remember ever disassembling a W-1 still having the metering rod disk where the disk was not stuck to the rod and moved with the rod. The original purpose of the disk was to prevent any dust from getting into the bowl through the opening in the bowl cover for the metering rod. We also omitted them from W-1's we restored. The disk was supposed to allow the rod to move freely through the disk; but in practice, did not do so for a long period of time.

Jon.

Just gave up and packed the carb in a USPS box and sent it to Arizona. Maybe a few days in the drier air will improve its breathing. I appreciate the info from MO. It makes sense of some of the questions I had. I just assumed it would lose some air pressure without a horn gasket. Obviously not a problem. I'll bet Dean can get it operating correctly. Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it. Roger