VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 35 Master driveline vibration

Hi All, this is my first post. I have been following the club and appreciate the knowledge I have gained.

I have a 35 Master Coupe with original 207 and trans. The trans has proven to be a bit unusual as it is a T83-1T on the case and T83-148D on the shift plate. In rebuilding, it needed a main drive gear normally for a Ford (4 gears on shaft instead of 3). We replaced bearings and the u-joint. Also replaced the drive shaft bearing in the torque tube.

Car drives fine in 1st and 2nd, but when I let off gas in 3rd, there is a vibration, roaring sound. Depending on the speed, it is intermittent, but always when decelerating. I plan to inspect the u-joint this weekend, but hoping you could advise on all the things to check that could be causing the sound and vibration.

thanks guys... just one of the 35 reasons that are driving me crazy!

I have 35 Master. I have a groan but not so pronounced. main bearing in transmission is my next check. I went through all u joints also

thanks for the feedback! I am replacing u-joints. Already replaced bearings in trans. Also, found an interference issue with a trans synchronizer and the main cluster gear. Did I mention I have what appears to be a rare trans that actually has Ford parts in it!

Hoping to make some progress this weekend... I will be updating this thread in the mechanical section.

It isnt a big surprise about the ford bits, at some stage the GM trans factory went on strike so GM acquired tranmissions from where ever they could which included ford. I dont know what year this happened though.
Tony

Hi Tony, the GM "Sit Down" strike happened in Dec 1936, so it affected the 37 models. It was the beginning of the UAW.

Here is a reference: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/sit-down-strike-begins-in-flint

Perhaps the depression and shortage of parts, etc was the cause of the 35's having Ford components in the trans. All I know is that it has made things a lot more complicated!! $$$$$ :)

--John

The Warner transmission was used in late 1935 and early 1936 due to a strike at the Muncie GM transmission plant.
Ford used Warner transmissions because they dd not have a tranmission plant.
Warner transmissions were used in a number of cars back then.
Begining in 1954 a Warner trans. was a heavy duty option for 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks.
In 1957 the Corvette 4 speed was made by Warner.

Good info, Gene.. thanks!

That's a really cool history for your transmission.

Hi All,
Wanted to give an update on my transmission vibration. It turns out that it was interference between the main cluster gear and the synchronizer. I have a rare Warner Gear trans that was used during the Toledo transmission plant strike in 1935. The WG trans actually uses Ford internal gears. We replaced the main cluster gear when rebuilding the trans. What we did not know was that Ford had two different gear clusters with one having teeth that were 1/16th longer. (perhaps to make it stronger?). When this is the case, you need to use a synchronizer that is 1/16th narrower. If not, the synchronizer will rub against the gear teeth in 3rd gear, especially when decelerating. We ended up grinding my original synchronizer down 1/16th and that seems to have addressed the issue.

crazy! :)

--John

Do not be offended by this but Ford only installed the transmision in their cars They had nothing to do with designing or making It was a (Borg) Warner product used in many makes of cars, especially independents thar could not afford to design or build one.
Warner also made the overdrive units found in many makes of cars including Chevrolet starting in 1955. Many makes used it back in 1934 and 1935.
GM was about the only auto company that made their own transmissions.

Hi Gene, thanks for the insight! The cluster gear we found had Ford stamped on it and was a direct replacement. Also, in a Motors repair manual, it showed an exploded view of the Ford trans "internals" and they are identical to mine. That lead me to believe the WG trans used Ford gears or vice versa?

Wish I had a trans made by Chevrolet... I think I may finally have it sorted though. (famous last words!). :)

--John

Warner Gear (later Borg-Warner) supplied gears to Ford, not sure about the case. Warner also supplied whole transmissions to Studebaker, Graham, Hupmobile, Chrysler, Willys, and a bunch of others.

Overdrive was engineered at Chrysler (the version we all knew as Borg/Warner Overdrive later on), but they did not have the capacity to produce it in sufficient quantity, but Warner did. In addition to Chryslers and Desotos, overdrive wound up in a bunch of Studebakers, Grahams, etc. built onto the back of a Warner Gear transmission. That doesn't mean Studebakers have Chrysler (or Ford) transmissions, does it?

There's nothing wrong with a Warner transmission. All transmissions were primitive in those days. The pre-37 Chevrolet design has it's own limitations. If it were my car, I would like having the Chevrolet/Warner because it is so unusual, and there are so few left. I couldn't even find a picture of one until you posted that picture with the syringe.

The "WM" transmission was used in the 1935 Master's because the Toledo Transmission plant went on-strike (I think around June, but don't quote me on that), as others have said.

It differs from the Toledo trans as the shift tower is 2" further forward, so with that said, the transmission floor cover and the rubber floor mat are also different.


WM Ratios;
Revers = 3.383:1
First = 2.819:1
Second = 1.604:1
Third = 1:1

Toledo Ratios;
Revers = 3.40:1
First = 3.02:1
Second = 1.70:1
Third = 1:1

I have a WM on the shelf if anyone need pictures.

Mike B :)