In numerous occasions I have had recently manufactured replacement coils short out from heat. Low vehicle and engine speed plus climbing a grade all contribute to coil heating. Once hot the two internal coils touch and the engine quits the same as shutting off the ignition switch. We pour cool water on the coil and are good to go again. That is different from the situation that germanchevy is describing. We don't get stalling, shuttering and banging just silence from the engine.
The symptoms of problems at higher speeds and after the engine is heated can be fuel related but are far more likely the points or condenser. Wiring or grounding can also be the problem as heat increases the resistance at connections, length of a wire, etc.
OK, I understand that the grounding of distributor is a firm lead. The coil is away from engine block at a cold place at firewall. I have two coils, an old one "Beru", an brand new one BOSCH, bought it two days ago at BOSCH. I dont think both are bad. But because of the yesterday exploded muffler at a misfire like a cannon thunder I must first get a new exhaust before next try at ignition.
I have a ground wire between my distributor and the engine block. Might be a hold-over of when the previous owner converted it over from the polarity reversing switch on the starter.
I'm interested in this thread because what germanchevy is describing is exactly what happened to my 41 either before or after it broke the rocker arm - loss of power, stuttering, horrendous back-fires. I seem to have her running good again after replacing the rocker arm, fuel line, adding an in-line filter, and swapping out the carburetor. BUT, she idles smoothly for a minute or two, drops down like she's going to stall, and then comes back up again. I haven't taken her out on the road since all of that due to working on the shocks and everything else, but now I'm wondering if I won't experience the same problems.
As far as the condenser goes, I've seen some people refer to a condenser that sits outside of the distributor. I have one inside the distributor which is less than a year old.
Last edited by BJSoder; 04/20/1906:20 PM.
Why do I spend more time under my car than in the driver's seat?
Your distributor plate was not grounded so when the reversing switch was removed it was necessary to have a ground wire. The broken rocker arm and/or a bent push rod would be due to an INTAKE valve stickig. Would d not only run poorly but make a knocking noise also. To cure a sticking valve or prevent a valve from sticking pouring ATF or MMO through the carb. hroat with the engine running usually helpsIn the early 1930's the condenser was out side of the distributor. Yours is inside. The may be a condenser for the radio mounted on the coil.
“normal” people go searching for easter eggs today, but I will go searching the problems of my car and earn greasy hands and dirty clothes…just destiny. BJSoder gave the idea about a rocker arm problem. Made a check just now. Did remove the valve cover and did crank the motor by hand. With spark plugs out easy to turn. Result? All rocker arms and valves move as they should move. Everything ok. Tomorrow I should find a solution how to repair by banged muffler and if it is done I will continue to work on the ignition thing. Aside that: BJSoder, if I would have an email address, I could send you some pictures of the filler screw of the front shocks. I guess they are same in 1940 and 1941.
BJSoder, see the pictures of Mike Buller, the link to see them is in his post and you see the oil filler srew on top of the shock housing. I use in my car motorcycle fork oil and it works good. Stefan
After I got the front shocks off (not a task for the feint of heart) I could finally see why they were dry and why any fluid I added would have just gone all over the floor - the seals on the back plates were completely gone. Sending all four in to Apple Hydraulics to get them rebuilt.
I am interested in what you eventually find out about your loss of power and backfiring problems, etc. When mine started doing that, I just happened to be right in front of my neighbor's house, who often works on old cars for other people and restored a '39 Packard to immaculate condition. He said it sounded like a fuel starvation issue. I realized that although I'd replaced my gas tank, fuel pump and rebuilt the carb, I hadn't gotten around to replacing the fuel line. Once I did that, added an in-line filter, and fixed the rocker arm, I've had no more horrendous backfiring or starting problems. So maybe that's something to check if you haven't yet - the entire fuel path where old gunk may be getting into your carb or plugging something up.
The only minor problem I have now is the idle issue - where it will idle fine for a minute or two, suddenly drop down as though it's going to stall, and then start idling again. Also, it doesn't want to rev smoothly until the engine is fully up to temp. Thinking that may be carb tweaking issues or maybe the new fuel pump isn't doing its job. Still working and pondering on it.
Why do I spend more time under my car than in the driver's seat?
Have you ever rebuilt your entire distributor? It seems with all its moving parts the heat from internal parts could affect it (not lubricated, broken spring). I have attached pictures of how my distributor is grounded because I eliminated the reverse switch on my starter. Your 40 is different. I have also included pictures of a worn vacuum assist spring that is ready to break. Could your spring be broke and you not see it? You have done an excellent job of troubleshooting, so I think if it is not the condenser or coil you need to look at places you haven't !!!
Best Wishes, Mike
P.S. Will send you a PM soon in regards to your Christmas letter.
Yesterday at evening after work I made something on electric side new additional. 1: Installing a ground wire from breaker plate to block 2.: Renewing main cable from starter to ammeter 3. Installing another new cable from ammeter other side to ignition lock. Other tests: Did heat up the kitchen oven up to 140° F and did check out all spark plugs and ignition coil when cold and than heating it up in oven to 140°F and than checking it again to see if everything is same or something changes resistance.
To see if there is a problem with general cars electric wiring and the coil gets not the needed power all the time I made an improved check light with a small bulb. As long it lights everything is ok and coil works. But, when the stuttering, stalling, banging etc begins I need all my concentration to keep the car running, find a short way back home without traffic light or stop signs and must have my eyes on traffic and all the other cars around me, no chance to see that check light bulb under these worse conditions.
The workshop book says to check the distributors "underground" turn the rotor clockwise and if it returns everything is ok. My rotor returns by the power of the spring inside, I guess it is ok. The vacuum spark advance works too. Step by step everything should become ready for a next test by running the motor, but first I must replace or repair my exploded muffler. The fuel line came in new in 2010 and there is an additional filter between tank and line, so for sure there is no dirt anywhere. The tank is restored in 2011 and the carb I had apart and reassembled now 3 times and found nothing. the fuel pump works great without any doubt.
Have you checked your plug wire to see if you're getting cross-firing between cylinders? I remember having that problem on the second car I ever owned - a 1964 Plymouth Fury.
When my 41 experienced these same problems (even blew the end of the tail pipe off with one of those cannon-shot backfires) I did a Google search for the cause and found one of the most succinct explanations for the causes of backfires or carb spitting: http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=95/prd95.htm
Basically, a backfire is caused when unburnt fuel ignites in the exhaust, which is what sounds like is happening with your car. From there, you have to track down why the fuel is not being completely burnt before entering the exhaust - valve not closing completely, timing, cross-firing, etc. It also helps now that you know it only happens after the engine heats up. Since engine parts expand when heated, wondering also if it may not be a slightly-bent push rod or a valve not closing completely, since you've already checked the rocker arms.
Just tossing out ideas here. It could also be one of the stupidly easy things that take forever to spot. My '64 Fury also had a problem of stalling whenever I turned sharply to the left. After days of careful driving and scratching my head, discovered it was a broken wire to my hood light that was swinging over on left turns, touching the engine block and grounding the whole thing out. Hard to spot because with the hood open, the loose wire wasn't anywhere near the engine.
Why do I spend more time under my car than in the driver's seat?
again some hours work later: Now after reinstalling everything I made a try and she run! good idle, had hope but bad feelings. If you are unable clearely to say what happened and what was k.o. it is not an successful repair at all. did risk it to drive a short trip with my neighbour in his car following me as rescue mobile, and again when speeding up stuttering, bad run but without exhaust banging. Back home I did check everything and found out cyl no 6 is not firing anymore if motor speeds up more than 1500 rpm. This old car witch really teases me...
As noted above possibly a valve not seating properly. Could be sticking when heated or a weak spring. . A compression test is always a good idea when problems arise. You could try swapping the plug wire from # 6 with another to see if the problem follows the wire or it remains on #6. A sticking exhaust valve will explain the explosion in the exhaust system and destroyed muffler.
Ok, die reassemble the distributor and made my simulation experiment. handcranking motor until it is at firing position of cyl 6. Than setting the breaker point in a always closed position. turning distributor to have the terminal of cyl 6 exactly at same position of the rotor. Fixing all together and connecting the cyl 6 high tension wire and putting in a grounded seperate spark plug.
Than switching ignition "on" and simulating the breaker point by disconnecting the wire between breaker terminal at coil and distributor. Result: Just a small, weak spark, but a spark. Better than nothing. Next I wanted to set breaker point and ignition timing as it should be, but I had to stop. The houskeeping service arrived and said "hey, you should know that it is forbidden to open a workshop at parking area, enough for today, stop now or we call police"... thats it for today...
next: today morning I did run the motor without valve cover and everything is moving there, no sticking valve.
to explain: somebody told me to check the distributors "underground" means the automatic spark advance so I took the breaker plate out and did check all parts and found nothing. Everything as it should be.
had no breakfast today, instead of that I made a complete new high tension wiring harness, in simple words: all cables hanging at distributor cap brand new now. Instead of lunch I did set breaker point and timing new. Instread of dinner I made the next try. To make it short: result: running!
Bu I know the german speech "man soll den Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben" Translation: *one should not praise the day before the evening* so I will surely not say: success, done, because during last 10 days I was twice in the situation to say it and was in trouble and dissapointed twice and the only result was an exploded muffler. I will not say "done" before my neighbor hat time to follow me as a kind of safety car and I am back home without any touble.
For today I am out and over because I did everything aside a hard exhausting day in my regular jobs as musician in "Bad Reichenhaller Philharmoniker" orchestra and driver for red cross ambulance cars...
Good night Stefan
Last edited by germanchevy; 04/24/1903:24 PM. Reason: wrong keys typed
last news: The ignition problem seems to be gone, but I still have no new muffler in my car.
Had to order it in USA and the way from there to me is long and complicate. It arrived just two days ago and now I have to wait again. All repair shops around are full and nobody has time until june. Cannot do it myself, have no car lifter and here, where the car is stored, everything is forbidden except driving in, parking, going out of the garage and the housekeeping service is like a watching dog. Unfortunately just now I got the termination of my place in the underground garage here and all that ends in the sad conclusion I must end my old car hobby now and sell the car as soon as possible. At my jobs everything becomes more and harder year by year, I have no time for that car anymore, no place to store it anywhere and it makes no sense to pay about 1000.- EUR every year just to own and have it without any use.
Stephan, sorry to hear that you have to sell your car. :(
Hope the next owner will benefit from and appreciate your hard work of bringing your car back to life. All the best and hope you never lose your love for old Chevy's!!
Always love to read your tales of working on your car but this is not sounding so positive. Maybe something will change and you will suddenly have a change of luck and it will all work out.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
Back to beginning: At first ride in this year, about easter, the car began to stutter for some moments and as unexpected as it did begin, it did end.
Had the idea of something with ignition problems but found nothing. Repairs without finding a part out of order are no repairs at all.
Later the real trouble began: Driving did end with shutting down, misfiring, exploded muffler.
Did renew all parts of ignition from coil to spark plugs. Later I found cable to cyl. #6 again bad, did change it again but that was not the final solution. Sometimes it did work, sometimes not. Could not find the true reason for that misfiring. As BJSoder wrote in another post *die at idle and smoke out of carb*, the misfire and backfire did shoot the air cleaner away and let jump the wiper too.
To exclude problems at gasoline side I had all parts working with gasoline out to check everything from fuel tank to carburetor and found nothing.
So, again back to ignition. What I finally found is ridicoulus: There is a part at distributor, sorry, I dont know the name in english (distributor terminal?). It brings the signal given from breaker point to the outside of the distributor housing and goes to the wire to ignition coil. That part was bad and sometimes I had electric interruptions at ignition.
Now it is done but that positive result does not change the circumstances. I must get the car out of garage at end of june, because the place is sold and the new owners did terminate the contract because they need the place themselves so I must leave and sell the Chevy now.
stefan, I am very sorry to hear about your circumstance. I hope that you will keep in touch here, even if you sell the car. I think we are a great family here.
For those of you that encounter a broken feed through insulator on the distributor, Steiner Tractor parts has new ones. I had mine crumble in my hands in the 38 one day.
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
Stefan, If there is anything we can do to help you in any way do not be afraid to ask ! We've all been there at one time or another. I know I have . Paul
p.k.
1956 BEL AIR 2 DOOR HARDTOP
I've spent most of my money on Booze,Women and mechanical things. The rest I just Wasted........
Remember , I'm not Always Right. But I'm Never Wrong !
