VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Tie Rod Ball Studs

Hello to all; I own a 1937 MD and was wondering when I change out the tie rod and drag link Ball Studs, if I can use the ball studs that are threaded with a nut on one end, or do I have to use the one's that need to be welded in?? I was once told by an old timer that there wasn't enough room to use the one's with the nut's because of the knee action???? Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Much appreciated. PS, the filling station sell's these Ball Studs. Their on page 259.
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Joes37

Joe,

There's a common pair of Moog tie rod ends that will solve your problem. The vendors don't advertise that because they can charge more for an "antique" part.

Ray W

I have a 1938 Master. I installed a dropped axle. In the process, I also had the steering arms reamed out to accept the newer style tie rod ends that now mount from the bottom up

Thank You Ray, and Modiol, for your comments. I was thinking about this very conversion, but are the holes the ball studs come out of tampered or straight?? or can I just bolt these Moog tie rod ends right in? Thank's
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Joe's 37

Are your present ball ends worn out of round? If not thre is no reason to not use the original adjustable, shock absorbing arangement.

"Are your present ball ends worn out of round? If not thre is no reason to not use the original adjustable, shock absorbing arangement."

Joe,

The above comment reflects the opposite approach to the one I take. I have repeatedly found that some outside of the box thinking turns up parts that yield significant improvements in the reliability, safety, comfort and maintenance expenses of our antique vehicles. I have found many parts interchanges during the decades I've owned my restored '36 PU (since 1965) including these tie rod ends. They are not listed in any parts book but really are direct, perfectly fitting replacements.

The ball studs are on tapered shanks and that taper is an exact match to the taper on the Moog tie rod ends I found. Also the left and right female threads are a perfect fit on the original tie rod. It's a true "bolt on". The modern tie rod ends are sealed and have a zerk fitting for periodic greasing. Why anyone would not take advantage of these huge improvements is a mystery to me. The judges at the 1976 VCCA National Meet in Colorado Springs did not recognize the non original tie rod ends on the tie rod or on the home made drag link. Winning Class T-2 (1929-36 trucks) with a home restored (no outside services beyond engine boring and bearing pouring, chrome plating and glass cutting) vehicle full of "stealth modifications" and driven 1400 miles to the meet to compete against trailer queens was an irreverent person's fondest dream.

My "Eureka Moment" on this subject came about 60 years ago when I was a teenager. My neighbor had an engine shop and I liked visiting it and he liked showing me what he was doing. On one occasion he was rebuilding a Model A Ford engine and he told me he had found a then-current Oldsmobile piston that was a perfect one for use in the Model A block. I blurted out "You can't put an Olds piston in a Ford". His response that changed the way I think about automotive issues forever was "WHY NOT". And that, Joe, is why my restored '36 PU is full of invisible, but very helpful, upgrades.

"Why not?". Words to live by.

If you're interested in the details of this why don't we pursue it privately? You can message me your email address if you like.

Ray W

Nothing like living in the past

Thank's to Gene, and Ray W, for your advice and comments on this matter. While on one hand, I've tried to keep my 37's parts and components all original, but on the other hand I can see the other way might work better. At least that way, I won't have to pay an arm and a leg to have the new ball studs welded in. And "YES" Gene, the old ball studs, are practically flat on two sides after 82 years of service! And Ray W. those phrases WHY NOT and THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX were some of my FATHER'S favorites to say. Sometimes they worked well and other times not so well! But I'll hold my thoughts on that. Thank's guys,
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Joe's 37

"And Ray W. those phrases WHY NOT and THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX were some of my FATHER'S favorites to say. Sometimes they worked well and other times not so well!"

Joe,

Trying anything new is always a risk. It may work and maybe not. The first guy who does the experiment takes that risk. If it works out the people who come after the original risk taker are safe. The modern tie rod end substitution was discovered by the same guy who put Olds pistons in Model A engines. He used those tie rod ends on his 1950s era Chevy pickup street rod and suggested that I try them on my '36 decades after the Olds piston revelation. That guy never stopped thinking outside the box.

If you want the details on the tie rod ends we can discuss it privately. I can send you photos of them on my '36 PU so you can see how subtly they differ from the original parts and will never be noticed.

There are many other such modern parts substitutions I've discovered for my '36. Auto parts constantly evolve but in many fortunate instances they are backwards compatible. In fact I have parts from other manufacturers on my '36 like Ford, Jeep and Porsche parts because they were identical to long ago discontinued Chevy parts but were still available when I was doing my restoration.

And beware of parts counter men. When I was doing my restoration in the early 1970s I "why notted" myself down to the local Chevy dealership to see if 1936-40 exhaust valves were still available for my '36. When I asked the question the guy at the parts counter laughed in my face for asking such a ridiculous (to him) question. Then he called some other guys out to the counter and repeated my "stupid" question and they all had a good laugh at my expense. When they were all done letting me know what a foolish question I'd just asked I said "Now that you've had your fun would you mind looking up my part?" All of a sudden it got really quiet at that parts counter. The valves that they "knew" were long obsolete had, without them knowing, been put back into production by GM. They ordered a box of 6 for me and a few days later I picked them up and they're still in my '36 engine. To be absolutely clear on that the box with the valves in it was obviously very new, not some discolored box that had somehow been sitting unnoticed in some GM zone warehouse for decades. That's an example of some parts men not knowing as much as they think they know and also the value of not being timid about asking questions.

To me a huge part of the fun and creativity in this hobby is in finding these parts substitutions like the modern tie rod ends that may by helpful to you on your project.

Ray W

Ray, I must be missing something. Why the dance of a thousand veils, why not just post the part numbers or applications they are found under?

Dave

Thank's for your comments on this Ray W, but I have to think on this awhile. As painful as it will be for me to think, this is how I do It!!
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Joe's 37

"Ray, I must be missing something. Why the dance of a thousand veils, why not just post the part numbers or applications they are found under?"

Good morning Dave.

Part of explaining parts substitutions is showing what the parts look like and I've found pretty surprising perfectly fitting 1936 Chevy pickup parts like Ford Econoline door hinge pins and gas filler neck rubber grommet, Toyota column drop rubber grommet, Porsche door glass rubber seals, Moog tie rod ends, modern wheel bearing seals, 25 Watt halogen headlight bulbs, unique 1932-36 3-speed Master & PU second gear retaining snap ring used in the aerospace industry, etc, etc.

If this is really an information sharing forum why not really welcome all contributors and allow photos of this really cool and useful stuff? Notice that parts catalogs have photos, not just part numbers. Is that possibly a topic of discussion with the decision makers, perhaps in consultation with the actual dues paying members? It's the forum members, both VCCA members and non members, who are the losers under the present policy.

Here's a tempting bit of potential eye candy Dave, a rarer than hen's teeth 1934-36 Chevy pickup and truck G. M. optional fan shroud. In 54 years of owning my '36 PU and being acutely interested in trucks of that vintage the one on my '36 is only one of those fan shrouds I've ever seen, except for a photo in a Chevrolet Service Bulletin from 1936.

"Thank's for your comments on this Ray W, but I have to think on this awhile. As painful as it will be for me to think, this is how I do It!!"

Good morning Joe.

No worries. I have always had the same approach. An hour spent researching, planning and reviewing options saves days in the doing. Haste makes waste.

Ray W

Who ever tried to e-mail me on this site, please try agin. I had forgotten to VERIFY my e-mail address, sorry.
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Joe's 37

That was me Joe. If it didn't work that's my total lack of computer skills showing. Please let me know if you got my message.

Ray W

Yes Ray W. I did.