VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Stud bolt problem

I was working on my 1965 engine. I broke off a bolt, and I bored it out. I tried an "easy out," but it broke off. How do I get that "easy out" our of there? It is too hard to bore out due to how hard the metal is. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Larry :confused:

Real hard, too hard to grind, or drill? gunsmiths often use nitric acid on high carbon steel or use a carbide bit to drill it out, if you use acid wear protective everything, nitric acid is mean stuff.


is it a thru bolt hole or does it bottom out? a four sided ezout? can you see the dutchman close to the top of the hole?
is it verticle or horizontal? I would try to drill the top off in the center, use a bit (or a cone point burr or stone, that will just pass thru the bolt hole and ease it really slow in and make a depression in the center of the ezout, then use a small bit for a 3/8 inch bolt use a 3/16 or smaller bit ,lefthand, if you can find a set and go up a size each time you get thru the ezout don't use full torque just enough to turn the bit. The problem probably is the bolt bottomed out, you will know when the bit is thru the bolt because you will see some rust and dirt with the cuttings. use lots of cutting or motor oil to cool and lube the bits I like to use PB Blaster, it penetrates the rust. When you get the ezeout out be sure the hole in the bolt is all the way thru the bolt, STOP drilling when you see the rust and dirt, or measure another bolt. Drill useing progressively larger bits, until you get very close to the thread, if you are off center it won't take so large a bit as the threads, when the dutchman is thin it will probably spin out with the bit, if you use a lefthand bit I have had them come out on a right hand bit when it is reversed after drilling all the way.( that has been the best way for me)

l6farmer,

decades ago, during my first few months as an apprentice machinist, I broke a tap while attempting to thread a hole in a cast iron, steam powered generator (yes, we're talking a long time ago)...

it took all day, but I was able to destroy the hardened tap a bit at a time using an assortment of center punches and drifts...tapping carefully with a hammer, I was able to capitalize upon the tap's hardness (brittleness) to chip it out a little at a time...all day...

hope this helps,

epi

Yes, Chevrolet I have done this working on guns when a tap was broken off in a receiver, my ezouts 4 sided and screw extractors spirial tapered are not hard enough to chip out, I use the four sided ones almost exclusively and am really careful not to put too much force on them, I drill thru the bolt and drill almost to the threads before useing any ezout, just think about it. "Why did the bolt twist off to start with?" if you don't releive some of the binding any ezyout won't help with a twisted off bolt.

Oh! I almost forgot when you are grinding or drilling on an ezout always use a right hand bit ot stone sometimes it will release the ezout, only use a left hand bit on right hand threaded dutchmen, I used to work on oilfield bullet perforating guns and they used left hand screws and bolts because we had to drill them out a good percentage of the time and the drill would usually spin the dutchman out when it drilled thru the bolt.

mack,

I agree...I always drill out as much material (usually ~75% of the bolt/stud's nominal diameter) BEFORE attempting the e-z-out...and, like you say, often, the remnant spins right out without the risk of even using the extractor...

epi

I can hear the thread gremlins laughing all the way down here. Those suckers enjoy taking a death grip on bolts, nuts, studs, etc. And they always seem to hold the last one tighter. But we now have powerful anti-gremlin weapons. First and foremost is anti-sieze. A little applied to every bolt and nut exposed to the elements, heat or water will be a blessing to the person that has to remove it later. And it may be you.

After getting frustrated with the drilling, grinding, cussing and still not getting it out, it is time for the heavy weapons. If you have an arc welder and some experience you can attach a bolt head to the broken parts. If there is anything sticking out then it is relatively easy to weld a bolt to the broken stud/ezout. First put a relatively tight fitting washer on the protruding shaft and then weld on a bolt with head. The washer protects the part keeps the weld to the bolt, stud, ezout. The heat will help to loosen the threads so the broken part can be backed out. A little penetrating oil will not hurt.

If the broken end is resessed then it gets more tricky. Again use a washer around the hole. Put the bolt in the stinger clamp, attach the ground and then with a hand on the on-off switch, place the bolt in the hole, flip the switch on and then off. It may take a couple of times to get it to stick well enough. The better the match of the end of the bolt and the broken end the more successful. Again the heat generated will help loosen the threads and a wrench on the bolt head will normally back out the pieces. As long as you don't weld the bolt to the block you have not done any damage.

It takes strong knardlies to weld on your precious parts but it will work. As Mack wrote none of this will work if the reason the bolt was twisted off is not addressed. I have found that heat is critical to breaking the bond of the treads. It is also often necessary to heat, guench, heat, quench for may cycles until those thread gremlins will know you mean business and loosen their grip. Then you will laugh at them instead of the otherway.

MrMack: The bolt bottoms out, and it is a vertical bolt. I'm not sure what a dutchman is.
Could you let me know? I like you idea with the drill, but that "easy out" is awfully hard metal.
Thanks, :confused:

The bolt is 3/8" and the tap is only about 3/16" and has 5 or 6 sides. It is so darn small, and it
is broken off flush to the surface.
I will give the heat a try. Thanks guys,
:)

A dutchman is slang for the broken off stud that is left in the hole, and that you want to get out. Probably someone will tell us why it is a dutchman, I always thought it was because it was troublesome and stubborn, and didn't want to cooperate.
Ask Chip how many blocks he has welded to his "stinger" Ha!Ha! I always dreaded having to get the torch or stinger out and useing it on an engine, don't sound Kosher to me,in fact it seems rather crude, maybe as a last resort, Kind like going to war half way around the globe, but you gotta get it out!
(I bet old Chip heats up his chili with a big old Victor rosebud torch.)

Hi, Thanks guys I tried a little of everything you said & I finally got it out. I pounded on it, heated it several times, bought a tungsten bit,with a few words & then I started small & bored it out to the size I wanted, tapped it out then I screwed in a stud & all was o. k..Thanks again see you later. Larry :)

We are always glad to hear good news!

l6,

there's nothing quite as satisfying as digging yourself a deep "hole" and extricating yourself from the mess...

glad it worked out...

epi

And my two cents are, this is why I absolutely hate easyouts. I think they should be banned. Then again I have never seen one work, I have just seen them produce grief!

Where I live we call those stupid things "hardouts" because they never work! :eek: :eek: :eek: :( :( :(

it ain't the extractor (easyout) that's usually the problem, it's the extracter (the guy turning the easyout)... :)

if one stops to think about the torque applied just before failure of the original stud or bolt, then realize how much torque the extractor can withstand before its breaking point, one should be able to understand that an extractor has somewhat limited utility...

however, if one drill's out as much of the stud/bolt remnant prior to using an extractor, the success rate rises dramatically...

epi

Except that the "hardout" usually strips itself out of the predrilled hole when torque is applied to it. Or......if it doesn't strip.......OOPS, it broke! :( :( :( :( :(

That is why it is important to use the proper size drill and easy out for the diameter of bolt to be removed.Drilling out as large as possible weakens the bolt to a thin shell plus allows the largest possible size extractor to be used.I had the best feed back on the square type extractors that I sold rather than the spiral type.The spline type also work well.

Ya, I have used the spiral type of "hardout" and I have yet to get a broken bolt out with them, even when the correct size hole is drilled into the bolt. Some of the other types of extractors are far superior to the spiral type of extractor as you mentioned.

Hey JYD, get with the program, Even Elvira knows that those spiral hardouts were invented by Henry Ford for export to GM.

Vermont American makes an excellent set of 4 square tapered ez-outs.

Are you a "Heat-it-upper" guy like Chipper Dipper?

Oh, I'm with the program all right! I knew when I saw that those spiral "hardouts" were made in Texas that they couldn't be any good. Oh ya, I'm really handy with the good old torch.....just like Chipper Dipper Doodle! :eek:

Broken stud ,as being in the welding trades for many years, I will take a steel washer, the same size as the broken stud, weld in the center of the washer to the stud and bring to the surface. weld a nut to the washer so there is a place for a wrench. Mig works best,but stick also works. After welding let it cool. The heat and cooled stud will help lessen the bind. :cool2: