VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Ethonal Made Simple

Here is something for you to consider whilst trying to figure out to blame Ethanol for everything from lawnmower repairs to flat tires. See below.

While the bias against Ethanol is well known and widely accepted owing to the smoke and mirrors out there convincing non-realists against their better judgement, cars, trucks, lawn mowers, pressure washers, and other engines of engines using ethanol are going down our highways at speed and functioning just fine.

Misinformation on ethanol is shameful and should be stopped. No thinking person believes it anymore. Go to a gasoline station with a zero Ethanol pump and see how long you sit there contemplating the expanse of the universe or the size of the atoms and molecules making up ones poor education.

Anyone bashing Ethanol in our gasolines, should hide their heads in shame. Just smoke and mirrors. Is too.

Just think. If you breakdown out on Highway 50 in NV and have Ethonal in the tank, no worries. Just let the car sit there about 15 minutes and drain the water from the bottom of the tank. If you have a tiny bottle of Watkin's grape flavering, you can sit in the shade and have Kool-Aid whislt waiting for help. Can too!

Best,

Charlie

If the engine is designed to use ethanol then that's fine however our old cars and many engines were not. I think any OEM of small engines that sells new equipment and then states in the owners manual to add a fuel stabilizer has done so for a reason .

Steve D,

I hear ya.

I think that advice is more to protect the manufactor than you.

All small engines I ever had that I read the instructions to have advised to drain the fuel from the carburater before placing the machine in a time capsule.

Just saying,

Charlie

I agree it is a little ridiculous how ethanol seems to get blamed for everything from potholes to gout. Also, there has been alcohol of various types in our gas longer than anyone wants to admit. Last month I stumbled across one of the little test kits I used to use back in the late 80s to test for excessive alcohol in the fuel. It was almost never the cause of whatever problem I was chasing.

None of that changes the fact that ethanol-laced fuel is corrosive. It attacks metals in the fuel system, like zinc carburetor bowls, and attacks various types of rubbery parts. It carries water that would cause rust even if the fuel itself was not corrosive. We would be better off without it.

I have been using ethanol (10%) since the early 1990's with no problems other than it loosened up the crud in my '33 coupe that sat in a grove for x number of years. I use it in everything except that '33 coupe. My '99 Jeep has NEVER had any other fuel in it and has 122000 miles on it. It still has the original fuel filter and spark plugs in it. It uses no oil and I started it a -28 below zero last week! I use it in my 2003 Ford F 150, no problems, I use it in my 2017 Lincoln MKC and have used it in multiple vehicles since 1990 with no problems. I think the propaganda against ethanol is mostly put out by the petroleum industry! BTW, My '37 Chevy and my '48 Chevy run fine on it! I am a retired farmer so I am not pushing it because I grow corn, I no longer do that. I am pushing it because I believe it is a renewable energy source and less of a pollutant than straight fossil fuels. I also believe that there will be even more efficient and less pollutant fuels than ethanol in the future. Hopefully we will still be able to buy some kind of fuel that will work in our vintage Chevrolets!
P.S. I do agree that it is hard on old rubber parts such as the fuel pump diaphram but they do make ethanol resistant replacements and that is the only rubber part that I know of in stock pre1950 Chevrolet fuel systems
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I have had the same experiance..........no problems.

I am glad you gentlemen have not experienced problems with using ethanol containing gasoline. I can't claim that. Have two carburetors on lawn mowers that were destroyed, carburetor and vacuum tank on '28 Chevrolet that were eaten up. Water attracted by the ethanol corroded die-cast parts on the lawn mower carburetors. The '28 carburetor had the green solid that is a complex salt with copper, ethanol and water. The copper is extracted from the brass parts and then forms the salt. I could give the chemistry explanation if anyone would understand or care. The inside tank of the vacuum tank was riddled with pits and also a couple of holes in the bottom of the bottom tank. There the layer of corrosion products was about 1/4" deep on the bottom of the vacuum tank. And to top it all off the gasoline tank on the '28 has a layer of the brown crud (probably polymerized gasoline) that has proven to resist the pea gravel and chain that has been inserted to break up the crud so far. The final result was replace carburetor, vacuum tank and gasoline tank on the '28.

I now use ethanol free gasoline when ever I can on my yard equipment and older Chevys. Also on the test engines where I test run the carburetors as well as the vacuum tank test stand. Does not seem to be a problem on the newer ones. I do have a carburetor problem on my '72 Chevelle but haven't taken the carb off to inspect it. Have a replacement ready to go back on. I now drain my older Chevrolet carburetor and gasoline tanks if they are to be stored for over a couple of months. Too expensive not to.

There IS a lot of misinformation about ethanol....................ON BOTH SIDES!

But as someone that deals DAILY with complaints about carburetors, I can professionally state that carburetors do NOT like ethanol, period. And I have done a few thousand mile tests comparing ethanol and regular fuel. Fuel economy on carbureted vehicles drops about 8 percent. Fuel economy on 1980's and 1990's fuel injected vehicles drops about 14~15 percent (but they have more power!). The ethanol fools the O2 sensor.

As to other claims, not my area of expertise, so no comments, other than:

Personal experience:

Both my John Deere 425 and 335 will run exceptionally rough on ethanol tainted fuel if mowing in a sunny area, and ambient above about 85 degrees F. They run fine on regular gasoline. This is really a good thing Honey, I can't mow in the heat, the mower isn't running right!

Jon

Down here in Aus on a lot of service station pumps is a notice NOT to use E10 fuel in small (lawn mower, chainsaws and outboard) engines. I have seen similar notice in owner manuals of these type engines. Also my 1992 Subaru runs that much better on non ethanol fuel that it works out to be 50cents cheaper per tank full to use non ethanol fuel when ethanol is 8c/litre cheaper in price at the pump.
I often use petrol to wash parts in but not E10.
Tony

A key fact is that a given volume (liters/litres or gallons) of 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol has about 3% less energy than the same volume of gasoline.

This means that your fuel consumption for a given distance will increase. You will have to refill more often. Due to the differences in fuel costs for a given volume, the real comparison is fuel cost per mile or kilometer.

This comparison does not include the concerns and issues with degradation of parts or rough operation due to the ethanol. My personal experience is that I had to have the fuel tank in my '37 coupe cleaned again after about 2 years of using 10% ethanol. There was always a small amount of fine rust particles in the fuel. I have a Farm G2 filter on the tank outlet so it was very visible. The person who cleaned the tank strongly recommended that I avoid ethanol fuels to prevent this problem. That has reduced the issue greatly.

My 1941 coupe that I drive fairly regularly has been using 10% ethanol like forever. Well, for over 13 years now. The original engine's timing gear failed. If I had some of you you Ethanol haters examine it, I have no doubt that the analysis consensus would point directly and solely to Ethanol.

Neither the old engine nor the present one (also a 41engine has had even a single hiccup that I would say was caused by Ethanol. Of course I'm not as clever or inclined to seek a way to blame Ethanol for every mysterious hiccup that comes along. Even after it having sat for a while (weeks) without having been started. Surely there is more to the story of allegedly Ethanol based troubles to raise an eyebrow in disbelief.

This is long. It is not worth your time or eye strain to read it. I have mentioned Chipper in it and am just kidding him. I hope he doesn't take offense. He helps keep us straight. So please don't. read on. You have been warned. If you do read it, please agree with my sound arguments which are based on rational thinking. Yep!

I believe the many testimonials that have unscientifically been thrown at Ethanol are in most cased completely unfounded. I think that if compared to straight fuel the failures would be about the same. Ethanol has merely become the easy scapegoat for failures to maintain our equipment and cars. I do believe that Ethanol causes flat tires.

If we are completely honest with ourselves then we will admit that the old fuel pump and hoses, whatever, had both a shelf life and a useable life as well. Nothing lasts forever when involved with gasoline, either pure or Ethanol laced at only 10%. I think that there was only .001% Ethanol in our gasoline that there would still be grumbling and pointing fingers at Ethanol.

Now Chipper, is a great guy. He knows far more than I do about chemistry and related disciplines. I believe he honestly believed the cause of rust, grime, predeteriation of rubber or any other seal of any material is aggressively attracted by Ethanol (corn squeezings). But, is it enough to blame corn?

As to explaining the scientific cause attributed to corn chemistry, just let me point out that in my limited knowledge that you can't change ratio without changing volume. Follow-up on this statement would Non-productive. Our Chat chemist doesn't seem to remember this from Chemistry 101. Just saying. So who're you gonna believe? (Pie is round - cornbread is square). More just saying.

When you next have to replace your dyroframe(sp) in your fuel pump or the flex hose from the tank, ask yourself just how long it has been in there, how much shelf life had it experienced and who made the old one.

Every time I tell the missus that we need a new set of tires on a car, she invariably asks, "Why?" She thinks they should last forever.

Don't get me started.

Best,

Charlie

BTW: Don't worry about the Ethanol. Just use your car and equipment with Ethanol in it. The difference in price more than makes up for any inconvenience that is true or erroneously assumed to be blamed on corn. Yep!

BTW2: The assumed Ills of Ethanol have legs owing to the big gasoline companies not liking to share the cost of a gallon of gasoline with the corn industry. To make this work, and it has very well, is to blame Ethanol for false proof that it is bad. They have sprinkled this enough misinformation and stirred the pot in order that some of us will buy the lie in perpetuity. Don't be so guidable. Ethanol is just fine: For our modern cars and the old ones as well, with just a small understanding just what Ethanol is and what it is not. Consider this when next”  you think about the use of corn.

a. It helps the environment. Ozone levels will bring on planet warming and be bad for low lying cities and farms. Water everywhere. Think Antarctica.

b. It helps the farmer who raises it.

c. Live stock love it. And, it adds to their health and weight when sold by the pound.

e. There is a silk for every kernel and there are always an even number of rows of kernels. (I just threw that one in to see if you were attending.)

f. Our engines gain horsepower by using it.

g. Kentucky would loose half their liquor industry without it. (Thorough that one in too. Same reason)

h. Side effects of using corn byproducts in the petroleum industries are minimal.

i. "Corn Flakes" used to be the first words we humans learned to recognize. Now, sadly, it's "Ethanol."

j. Corn gives us something to do on our old cars. Whether they need something done to them or not.

BTW3: Didn't I warn you?

My Toro Snow Thrower started leaking gas on it's third season so the carburetor was rebuilt. The repair guy was more angry than I was stating that the D5@g corn gas just seems to melt the carburetors. So at the beginning of every winter, I drive 25 miles round trip to buy 2 gallons of corn free gas for approx. $3.99 a gallon. So lets do the math: Gas w/o corn = $7.98; Corn gas used to get the no corn gas = $3.00 Total of $10.98. Cost to have the carburetor rebuilt: $92.67. Time spent getting the no corn gas = about an hour. Time spent waiting for the snow thrower to get repaired because there are 17 melted carbs ahead of me = 5 to 7 working days. Keep the corn on my plate and not in my tank!!!

Wow $92 to rebuild a Toro carburetor, I have bought complete new carbs for a Honda engine cheaper than that.

WOW!!! You can talk along time and never say anything. Ive heard babble from babies that made more sense.