VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Body - Sheet Metal, Paint & Wood Paint color verification

While there might still be a chance to verify and document original paint colors factory applied to Chevrolets, I propose we get together a group of volunteers to seek the most accurate paint colors for each year and model. Yes, I know it is a daunting process but like eating an elephant it starts with a single bite. I am confident that once successful determining a single color then others will be easier. As the results are publicized more will contribute and even if it never gets 100% completed it will be worthwhile to preserve another teensy bit of history before it is lost forever. There are also our fellow Chevrolet year and model clubs that could be involved? Does NCRS already have paint color "standards"? or CORSA? or ????

Are you talking about adding them to the judging guidelines? They're not to hard to find. Chevrolet published them in a few printed materials.
Refresh my memory: Is a judged car supposed to be it's original color, or just a color that was offered on that model?

Verne

How would the correct color be documented other than color chips?

Ideally the colors would be defined by spectral analysis. Sorta like GPS coordinates for paint. That would allow numerous paint suppliers to mix the "exact" color with their proprietary tints. Of course it could also be beneficial to a particular paint company to participate with in-kind assistance so their particular line had an advantage. Color chips might be another way but preservation of the chips is an issue.

I am not advising adding to the judging guidelines at least until the project is much further toward completion and maybe never. Though I don't agree with it, the last I knew the car only had to have a paint color available for that year and model. Those requirements were either not or lightly enforced for a multitude of reasons. Least of which was lack of knowledge and standards for judges to use.

I was lucky and original paint still existed on my car so I took pictures. I did find close current paint chips so I don't have to rely on the photos. I will not get exact match but can at least get in the ballpark. Also helpful as the original paint scheme was from the previous year which is documented with photos.

I have been told there are 52 shades of white so I would guess there are as many shades of every other color in the rainbow. With this in mind and the add that there are very chips available to compare with I would think a color close to original option would be suitable but I am not a judge and not likely to have a vehicle judged.
Tony

I don't think the focus needs to be judging but that the current owner wants to restore his Chevrolet to be as close to original as practical. Notice I didn't write "possible" as there are somethings that are possible but prohibitively expensive (time and money).

I'm only guessing that is what Chipper is talking about compiling. However, being on pain meds since my recent eye surgery, I'm not sure of anything.
It would be quite a task to put together sample paint chips for each color available AND have them available at every judged meet. I think this boils down to having experienced judges who can recognize the difference between '61 Jewel Blue and '62 Silver Blue (etc).

If the judging team wanted to take on the task of writing judging guidelines for certain years (like the NCRS does) that is possible if they recruit the appropriate experts on certain years. It's a catch-22 situation though because I've been told by a high ranking official of the VCCA that having such detailed guidelines for some years would put the other years at a disadvantage. In my view, such thinking is like stocking your head in a hole and writing off any potential improvements to judging. The losers in that line of thinking are the cars themselves because they will never be able to achieve a level of restoration that is historically accurate.

Verne

The unequal argument has persisted on the Judging Committee for decades. It has resulted in stifling changes and improvements not only in VCCA judging but also available information. I (and several others over the years) have tried to get leaders and members to back efforts to provide more technical information without much success. The real shame is expertise that resides in VCCA members and no where else is being lost as some of our older members pass on and literature collections dispersed. As an example Ralph McEowen died a year ago. He was the # 1 expert on early 30s Chevrolets particularly the soft top models. What happened to his literature and documents? Our beloved Gene is not getting younger. He fortunately for all of us has authored a technical section in the G&D for years.

While the Heritage Center has a lot of valuable and accessible information, the VCCA library is basically unknown and not readily or affordably accessible. With enough pressure from below (membership) I think we can get the Board to spend some time and funds to provide current and future generations the information and motivation to preserve Chevrolet history. Every day that passes a little more is lost forever. This paint effort is an example. It will have significant value even if it is not used in the VCCA Judging System.

Cream medium was a color used on Chevrolets from 1931 into the 1960s. Having a method to have numerous paint suppliers across the globe able to mix that color in several paint systems has a large benefit to those maintaining or restoring Chevrolets and GMCs.

I agree with the above. However, it all depends upon which direction the VCCA is heading. Lately it appears that the VCCA is more focused on social than technical.

And that is the most important question that needs to be answered. Just have fun with the cars or give the cars (and their owners) the information they need to get better.

Verne

Great discussion and one that needs to be considered as an objective for VCCA.

I will add a perspective that might help decide how this work should proceed.

First of all, any analysis of any paint sample is simply an analysis of that sample at the time the analysis was made. This means that whether the analysis is made on a book of color chips or an area of a car that is known to have original paint, the analysis represents the condition at that time. Even if the book or area of the vehicle has not been exposed to sunlight, it has been exposed to air/oxygen, moisture, and temperature changes.

The second point is that the same color can be achieved with different formulations of base color and tinting/coloring agents.

The third point is that those different formulations can match under some light conditions and not match under others. You will often see this on vehicles that look great in sunlight but at an indoor show the mismatch is very obvious.

Based on my experiences at an agricultural equipment company which made one color of product, maintaining consistent color across all the variables was an expensive and time-consuming process. Not only did we have multiple processes using different types of paint at our manufacturing operations, we had a global supplier base that also provided painted parts. Our controls also addressed powder coated parts and plastic parts with color molded into them.

Our basis was a controlled mixture of one type of paint applied one way to a metal sample prepared one way. Those samples were stored in a freezer and replaced every 2 years. Those samples were distributed to parts and paint suppliers upon request. Whatever material and process each operation used had to produce results that matched that sample.

The proposal to build a paint "library" is a great one. However, I would be very reluctant to call it the "definitive" library for the colors that came from the Chevrolet factories. In fact, my guess is that if you were a paint chemist for Chevrolet in the 30's you would see differences in the same color designation among the various factories. Dealers and customers rarely would notice it because all of their vehicles came from one factory.

I pretty much agree. For each color there needs to be some allowance for variance in tone as we all know all factories didn't get paint from the same supplier. I also doubt paint was consistent from one delivery to the next. Having said that some baseline needs to be established for general reference so people know they have to come close to it and judges needs to understand for fair and accurate judging. I would have difficulty as my early Canadian 1929 has 1928 color and paint scheme and the engine has 1928 paint color as well. Mine is from Oshawa plant and I have seen a sedan from Regina that had a slightly different scheme for the reveals around the windows. Both of these had original paint.

At least a known imperfect library that could be improved with time, would be better than the current system of individuals guessing. From my experience the current process is one of posting here for color information only to find that the color codes available cannot be made. I recently tried to secure the codes for Brewster Green after seeing it on a truck on the cover of the December 2019 issue of the G&D. The truck owner and the paint shop owner were both very nice but could not supply the codes. The usual suppliers that supply the paint could not supply a sample to see ahead of time. I believe close approximations are out there if we could just organize them and let the members themselves decide if they want to use them.
It’s just very frustrating,

I have been trying to contribute to the data that the VCCA maintains supporting authentic restorations for many years. The normal response is it is too hard a project so doesn't get enough support to continue. It is a shame that VCCA members are not farseeing enough to contribute.