VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc TO FLUSH.. OR NOT TO FLUSH...

IN READING MY OWNERS MANUEL ON MY '32, I FIND THAT I AM TO FLUSH THE ENGINE, TRANNY, FREE WHEELING UNIT, REAR END AND MAYBE THE SHOCKS. I AM TO USE A LIGHT FLUSHING OIL, BUT NOT GAS OR KEROSENE, WHAT IS A LIGHT FLUSHING OIL? I HAVE NEVER FLUSHED BEFORE (ON A CAR) HOW DO I FLUSH OUT THESE AREAS? WITH WHAT TODAY? AND SPEAKING OF FLUSHING, WHAT DO I FLUSH THE RADIATOR WITH? THANKS, GATOR :confused: :confused:

Gator,

Flush the engine with 10W oil if you think you need it. If clean, oil changed reqularly and/or you use detergent oil flushing is not required. It can also be used in the transmission and free wheeling unit. Brake system cleaner works well to clean the gunk from the bottom of the case. Then use the flushing oil prior to fresh lubricant.

The cooling system can be flushed with water. If needed a weak acid solution and then neutralized with a backing soda solution. Or you can use modern flushes that you can get nearly everywhere auto chemicals are sold. Water works well. Be sure to add antifreeze or inhibitor to keep corrosion undercontrol.

While your on the subject of coolants,what is your thoughts on anti freeze in old chevs like my 31 ? I was always told if it got in the bearings it could ruin them and head gaskets were not that good in those old cars.Is there something better or what do you suggest?

:confused: :confused:

Someone told me to keep an eye out on what anti-freeze to use, as some have a substance that can be harmful to the older motors. Now just what the substance is, I cant remember...old age!!

Now radiator inhibitors, my understanding these are different to anti-freeze?? Can our more expert listers give us a run down on what the difference is between a inhibitor product verses anti freeze product?

Antifreeze has either an ethylene glycol or propylene glycol base. Corrosion inhibitors are added to reduce corrosion in the cooling system. All made today have inhibitor packages that protect ferrous (iron) metals, copper, brass, and aluminum. They are also tested to be compatible with the hose and seals that are used in modern engines. Many inhibitors have been used in the past and some still used today. I don't know anything about antifreeze attacking bearings. It is possible but not likely. Water and acids from combustion gas leaking into the crankcase are more likely to cause bearing corrosion problems.

Both ethylene glycol and proplyene glycol with heat and water will form a substance with mineral oil (normal crankcase oil) that resembles tan to brown whipped cream. It is an emulsion (gunk) and bad stuff. Whipped cream is also an emulsion! :rolleyes: It is therefore necessary to keep the antifreeze out of the crankcase. The gunk will keep oil from lubricating the parts which can cause rapid failure.

It is advisable to add inhibitors to the cooling system. It will keep the metal surfaces clean and retain cooling capacity. If rust, scale or other stuff coats the metal surfaces heat transfer will be reduced and that is not good. :( The best inhibitors are marketed for commercial or industrial engines. Your local truck stop with have some. If they leak into the crankcase they will have negative effects on the oil and lubrication but less than antifreeze.

It is true that older engines have a greater chance of leaking antifreeze into the crankcase than most modern engines. They have twisted, warped, corroded, scratched etc. surfaces. The tolerances were not up to modern standards. If the engine is overheated then warping and gasket failure are more likely (the problem with the modern engines) and leaks into the crankcase possible. If you check the dipstick and dipstick tube for signs of water and the tan whipcream regularly chances of major damage are reduced. If you keep loosing antifreeze and can't find where it is going check the crankcase and tailpipe. If you have a coolant leak the water has to go someplace.

In case you wondered, I spent many years working in the engine coolant group at a major company. Now what do I use? Antifreeze of course! At least 33% and less than 50%. It is in my 1919, 1928, 1931, etc. I use deionized or rain water or water from my dehumidifier to keep scale to a minimum. I try to remember to change and water flush the cooling system every 3 years or so and keep an eye on the color. If the color changes you may have exhaust gas leaking into the coolant. It will eat up the inhibitor in a jiffy and corrosion will follow!!!

Hope you enjoyed the reading. :p

I have lived in areas of Texas famous for it's "Bad" water, Hard, mineralizesd water that will cause brown nasty rust in a radiator that one would swear was mud. I never use tap water for a coolant in anything I figure I will keep until next week, Distilled water is available for around $.89 or less a gallon and it usually only takes a couple of gallons per vehicle every 24 months unless I have a leak, (unusual) I don't like tohave cooling problems so I keep the system maintained. That and a good quality anti-freeze (I like the GM long life variety) or Zerex, Prestone, Dow-Guard,or whatever it is called now for Chip's sake,etc. my 95 1500 has had three batches of 50-50 long life and distilled water and it is as clean after 24 months as the day it was installed. That is what will go into any cooling system I value as much as I do my Chevys.

I would like to put my thanks in here too
you have answered a lot of questions on anti freeze . Thanks again

Johnny,
Back in the 70s borates and silicates, nitrites, nitrates, amines and other additives were commonly used in antifreeze. Some combinations caused "Solder Bloom" particularly with some solder types. Ford had a particular problem with Bloom and it was bad enough to plug radiators. I had the problem with a '79 Ford pickup. Caused major engine problems. Since then solder has changed and inhibitors also. Besides babbitt is different blend than solder. Since new radiators are plastic and aluminum it is possible that factory fill may have a solder or babbitt problem. I seriously doubt that aftermarket antifreeze will have any problem as there are still too many soldered radiators out there.

Is there anything that will clean solder bloom from an older radiator without takeing it apart? I have a couple cross flow that look like there in full bloom. Thanks.

:) :confused:

THANNKS FOR ALL OF THE GREAT INFORMATION, GUYS. HAS ANYBODY TRIED THE "NEW" ENVIRONMENT FRIENDY ANTI-FREEZES? WOULD THEY BE LESS LIKELY TO CAUSE PROBLEMS? IS RAIN WATER AS GOOD AS DISTILLED WATER? IF YOU NEED TO FLUSH THE COOLING SYSTEM WHAT WOULD YOU USE? IS THERE A DOWN SIDE TO USING JUST WATER AND DRAINING DURING FREEZING WEATHER? :confused: :confused:

WEAK ACID WAS RECONMENDED, WHICH ACID AND HOW WEAK (PARTS OF ACID TO PARTS OF WATER)? :confused:

I would say common household vinegar would be a good "weak acid solution" full strength.

THANKS MR MACK. :) :)

Rain water is not quite as good as distilled or deoinized water. It will contain a bit of acid from the air. It is way better than tap water in most of the country.

Water only is also not good. It will cause rust to form in the block and head in an instant. Adding a good commercial truck type corrosion inhibitor will fix that. I don't recommend soluble oil or water pump lubricants as they reduce cooling and don't really do much for the water pump.

Antifreeze is the best overall solution and cheap insurance.

CAUTION BEFORE WORKING WITH ANY ACID PRODUCT PUT ON EYE PROTECTION. YOU ONLY HAVE ONE SET AND SOME OF THE CHEMICALS CAN MAKE YOU BLIND FOR EVER!

You can use vinegar if you want but is a bit expensive. Citric acid is probably the best but hard to find and a bit pricy. The most practical is dilute hydrochloric acid. It can be made by mixing at a 1 part of muriatic acid (swimming pool acid) to 10-20 parts of water. Always do it out doors with plenty of ventilation and ALWAYS ADD ACID TO THE WATER! Drain the coolant, flush with water, drain, close the drain valve, add the acid and run engine. After the engine gets to operating temperature shut it off and allow to cool to about 1/2 way to ambient. Drain (keep off of concrete, it will eat it) noting the color of the drain water. If noticeably yellow rince with water and do it again. When the drain water gets like strong lemonade color you are done. Save a small amount of the drain water in a plastic cup. Rince a couple of times with water and then add the neutralizer. Mix a few table spoonfuls of baking soda in water and add it to the cooling system. Run the engine a few minutes. Drain and add a couple of drops to the drain water in the plastic cup. When it foams or bubbles you are nearly done. Rince again with water (tap is ok for rincing). Drain as much as possible and then add antifeeze mixed 33% to 50% with deionized, distilled, rain water. If only water will be used make sure to immediately add rust or corrosion inhibitor.

CHEVYCHIP, THANKS FOR ALL OF THE GREAT ANSWERS ON THE COOLING SYSTEM.

ON ENGINE FLUSHING, DO YOU WARM UP MOTOR, DRAIN, ADD 10WT, RUN (?), DRAIN AND ADD 30WT?
WOULD IT HURT TO USE DETERGENT 10WT, I HAVE ONLY USED NON-DETERGENT 30WT. IN THE MOTOR?

TRANNY FLUSH?

REAR FLUSH?

FREE WHEELING UNIT FLUSH?

SORRY ABOUT ALL THE QUESTIONS, BUT I DON'T WANT TO CAUSE ANY DAMAGE + I WANT TO PROLONG THE LIFE OF THE CAR. :confused:

I see the web site MrMack found (www.lubriplate.com) has non-detergent 10wt, 20wt, 30wt, 40wt, 50wt, along with the water pump grease. :) :) :)