VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 1936 Standard Horn Button

The focus of my re-wiring job has now turned to the horn button. I bought this car with a hardware store press-button screwed to the dash...OMG! That's like walkin' around a car show with your fly open. That marvel of engineering is making a straight line for the tip!
I carefully pried the center horn button with attached rubber grommet out to find two long prongs on the underside.
I immediately turned to my reference manual only to be disappointed once again at the lack of pictures showing any (exploded) view of the horn assembly. I would assume there should be some type of spring, possibly an insulator or two, maybe some contact washers or something more?? Should wires be attached to the prongs??

Can anyone help me out with a diagram or photos or better instructions.

I am beginning to see why there were more than a few short cuts taken during the last refit.

I appreciate your time as always.

KenO

The "S" wire (two prongs), the metal horn button and the rubber grommet is all one unit. There are no electrical wires attached to the "S" wire. The "S" wire makes contact with the brass ring that is on the mast jacket bushing that is inside of the mast jacket when the horn button is pushed down. The rubber grommet makes the horn button pop back up when the horn button is released.

The reason that the Mickey Mouse button iwas installed is because the car needs a new horn wire (thru the steering column) and upper bushing. The original problem was continued and uwanted blowing of the horn.

Look in the steering gear section of the shop manual for upper bushing/mast jacket...............or some one will chime in here with a better description of the operation.

See the post above......

Thanks for that info... Thats why I see a wire hanging out at ther bottom of the steering column just above the steering box.
But I'm thinking there should be two wires, that would have continuity to ground once the horn button is pressed??

I've looked at the steering gear section of the shop manual, but either the picture is too small or my 'focals just can't focus.

Nope, only one wire is used. When the horn button is depressed, the "S" wire on the horn button makes contact with the brass ring completing the circuit thus activating the horn. Check out your wiring diagram and it will show how the horn and the mast jacket are wired.

Beauty! I see a multi-meter and cold beer this Friday evening out in the shop.

Like Gene said the core problem is that the wire going up the column has probably shorted somewhere against the column. Over time the cloth/lacquer insulation got brittle and broke off the wire due to vibration/bouncing/motion of the car. That completed the circuit and the horn would not stop blowing.

Think of it this way. The horn button is downstream or at the end of the circuit. The brass ring is grounded to the steering column which is grounded to the body. And the body is grounded to the battery.

I have been able to replace the wire on some bushings where it is simply soldered to the brass ring. This assumes the bushing is not so worn that it needs replaced.

Did you mean instead that the brass ring is grounded to the steering column via the horn button "S" wire when the horn button is pushed down? The brass ring on the mast jacket bushing is insulated by the mast jacket bushing. If the brass ring was directly grounded to the steering column then the horn would be activated all the time.

Is one able to actually see this "mast jacket bushing" & Brass ring with the steering wheel removed?? I'm assuming the bushing is press-fit or mechanically attached into the mast jacket? Would it slide up and off the inner steering shaft with the wheel removed and the clamp loosened??

So I was just out in the shop, where I pulled the wheel, then the outer jacket off the steering box. The bushing was a good fit to the steering rod itself, but it looked like the brass bushing surface was very dirty and down too far inside the jacket for the "S" wires to make contact. The wire insulation looked real nice, only slightly frayed where it exited the jacket, so I slid some heat shrink over it. I noticed a little indent in the jacket that oriented the bushing and perhaps holds it in place. I turned the jacket upside down and put a 4' piece of pipe inside the jacket, being careful not to pinch the wire. I tapped the pipe a few times and easily slide the bushing up about 3/4". Next, I pulled out a Dremel with a small wire brush and cleaned up the brass contact surface. I now have good continuity between the brass contact surface and the end of the wire...nowhere else. I also carefully pulled the rubber grommet off the horn button and will apply a new coat of laquer.
Now I see where the "S" wire name that "Junkyard Dog" mentioned.
Reassemble tomorrow evening.....

Sounds like you are hot on the trail to get your horn button working.

The dimple in the mast jacket is the index for locating the mast jacket bushing in the correct position in the mast jacket.

I just came back in from re-assembling the steering column. I don't have a 12V horn handy, so I attached it to a light, and wired it in as "Rusty 37 Master" and manual diagrams suggest, at the end of the circuit. I installed the horn button, pressed it and my little light shines!!!
I still don't quite understand where or how the ground-out happens...I can't see how the two prongs touching the brass ring grounds out anything, but I'm just not going to think about it as long as it works. I'll just call it voodoo, (just like fuel injection), and leave it at that.
Thanks for all your advice.

Ken, the ground is accomplished when the legs of the S-wire contact the sides of the holes in the metal hub of the steering wheel and the brass ring at the same time.

NOW I understand..... and can sleep 'nights. Thank you, Bill.

BTW, I was looking at the "Jim Carter" on-line cataloge and discover that my horn button has one more problem....the rubber grommet underneath the metal button is shot. The bottom lip on mine is curled up on both button examples I have, so there is no recoil. Thats why I was thinking there must be a spring underneath the unit. Truly, that picture was worth a thousand words, and my order for a new one.

Yes, like other have said, the horn is wired hot and the ground wire runs from the horn contact up to the brass ring on the Mast Jacket Bushing. The circuit is only completed when the horn button is pressed and completes the grounding through the steering column when the S-wire is touching both the brass jacket ring and holes in the steering wheel that S-wires go through.

Funny story.

Back in the 1970s the horn on my 1933 Master stops working because the rubber button part was so stiff you could no longer push in the button.

The Mast Jacket Bushing was fine so I only cleaned the brass ring and replaced the rubber part and S-wire with what I initial thought were no issues. I only live 25 miles from Hershey and the first place I drove the car to was the fall Hershey AACA show. No problems until I made the first sharp turn into the show field and the horn would beep on each sharp turn.

Moral of the story is If the mast jacket bushing and other parts are installed correctly and you have this issue like this after driving the car then remove the S-wire and file the ends off just slightly for a bit more clearance between the ends of the S-wire ends and Mast Jacket Bushing.

My problem right now is the button is depressed all the time because the rubber is collapsed. There is no "spring" left in it. Your advice will be put to the acid test once I get it all back together with the new grommet, AND the snow that's falling now melts next spring!

The horn button on my 32 was in a similar condition and when depressed did not return. I went to a dollar store and bought a childs sponge rubber ball of the same diameter-cut it in half and put it under the button. After three years it still works fine. I would have just replaced it but had reports that the reproductions were not that great.

Now there's another good idea!, Thanks, Steve.

Years ago so aftermarket company sold a weak coil spring with a little plate on it for that fix.

Gene, I have one of those still in the box.