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#412671 08/07/18 11:27 PM
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Lou Offline OP
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What's the difference between a 1923 and 1924 Model B?
I know the 1924 model F has a straight front axle where as the 1923 B has a dipped axle.
The 1923 Model B has a 2 piece pumpkin where as the 1924 F has a banjo rear axle.
What does the 1924 B have?
Is there a break in the serial numbers?
Other differences?
Thanks, Lou

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Lou #412681 08/08/18 05:24 AM
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Lou,

To add confusion, my24 F does not have the banjo.

Dave

Lou #412686 08/08/18 08:07 AM
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I have a 1924 repair manual that does not show any banjo style axle? It covers up to Superior models with diagrams.

Lou #412692 08/08/18 09:11 AM
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Lou all 1924 cars were series 'F' not 'B'. ('B' was 1923; with some exception to vehicles made in Canada) The ID tag on the passenger seat will be different depending which plant the vehicle came out of. The first number(s) refer to the Mfg plant followed by the letter 'F' and the remaining numbers are the sequence the car was coming off that plants assembly line. Letters /years are '23 'B', '24 'F', '25 'K', '26 'V', '27'AA', '28 'AB'. Hope this helps.
Steve


Steve
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Lou #412728 08/09/18 04:44 AM
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Lou Offline OP
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. I guess 1925 K is the first banjo housing. I'm learning something.
Thank you for the simple explanation of year vs series letter.
I wish it were so.
The Chevrolet 4 cylinder parts book specifically disagrees.
I could email you the 1916 - 28 Data Sheet, if you like.
I don't know how to post photos on this site.
. The first number in the serial is #6, so I know it was assembled in Oakland.
(Moved to Fremont, sold to Toyota, now the Tesla assembly plant.)
I'm trying to learn more about this year.
. Where is the ID plate supposed to be located?
Mine is screwed to the firewall with Phillips screws.
I believe it is supposed to be tacked to the left seat riser or left floor where the driver steps and grinds when entering the vehicle.
I found the engine casting number just below the exhaust port on the upper right center of the block.
#327773 is supposed to be 1922 490, 1923 & 24.
On the left front of the block is date "H 15 3" which should mean August 15th, 1923.
On the left rear of the block is a stylized word "Ferro 1".
Do you have any idea what that means?
The engine serial is supposed to be stamped on the flywheel.
I haven't looked yet.
. Thank you again, Lou

Lou #412729 08/09/18 05:25 AM
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I have heard the ID plate could be on either side of the seat riser. Mine has a metal plate with the number on the pass side but there are no Chevrolet markings on it, I suppose it could be worn off. An obvious repo plate is on the driver side, same number.

I believe Ferro 1 is the foundry.

The engine number and firing order are on my flywheel.

Dave

Lou #412736 08/09/18 09:08 AM
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Lou I'm not sure what your disagreement is as per your 1924 parts book. I have one as well. The 'F' notation in that parts book refers to the 490 model 'FA' & 'FB' 20, 30, 40 ,50'. Chevy didn't use the 'B' and 'F' designations as a series in their parts books until after the series 'K' was introduced for the year 1925. They were just noted as Superiors. My 1928 parts book makes those distinctions. I do have a 490 & Superior operator instruction book dated September 1,1923. It states the ID tag on a Superior is located on the right side of the passenger seat and on a 490 it is attached to the dash under the instrument board.This is the only book I've seen that even acknowledges the existence of a 490 in 1923. The banjo rear was new for the series 'K'. If I can help with anything else let me know.
Steve


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Lou #412748 08/09/18 03:16 PM
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Hi Dave, .
. Thanks for the ID plate location info.
I believe Chevrolet was looking for a permanent place for it in 1923.
Right or left side. Seat riser or floor.
All my 1927s & 28s have the ID plate on the right side seat riser.
My 1937s with Fisher and Martin-Parry bodies have it on right cowl under hood.
My 37 Holdens have ID plates on Left cowl.
I have not been able to locate the ID plate on the Flxible nor anyone who knows where this 37 Chevy has it located.
Ferro 1. I didn’t realize that Chevy used several foundries.
. .
Hi Steve, .
. I like your description of having one series letter per model year.
I have 2 parts books and Doug Bell’s "EARLY CHEVROLET HISTORY" book that disagree.
One parts book was published Feb 1, 1928 and the other Mar 1, 1939.
A picture of these Data Sheets would display to what I am referring to.
(Sorry, I don’t know how to post photos on this site.)
On page 54 of “SIXTY YEARS of CHEVROLET” it explains the midyear confusion with models.
. The 1925 K would have the ID plate on the right side seat riser.
I have a photo of a 1923 ID plate on the left floor where the driver would step and twist to enter the car.
It’s a low mileage original car in a museum.
. One piece of literature called Chevrolet Commercial Cars calls most of the Chevys “Superior”.
They look like 1922 490s with E-brake behind the shift lever but only 4 wheel lugs.
It includes the “New Superior Line” Utility G and Model T.
Nowhere does it say 490.
There is no date on the brochure.
. On the 1923 B, was there any floor covering inside? Rubber? Linoleum? Carpet?
Were the running boards wood or metal? Any covering?
. Thank you again for your technical assistance. Lou

Lou #412750 08/09/18 04:40 PM
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Lots of interesting info in previous posts, here is one on Ferro;

Tried copying the link , didn't work, from 4/07 by David Hayward

FERRO MACHINE AND FOUNDRY COMPANY, CLEVELAND, OHIO supplied raw castings to Chevrolet, from 1925 to 1927 for Blocks but not Heads. By 1928 after the Saginaw Products Company, Saginaw, Michigan, Plant was taken over by Chevrolet to form the Chevrolet Gray Iron Foundry, Chevrolet had enough castings to avoid using an outside supplier.


Last edited by Dave39MD; 08/09/18 04:44 PM.
Lou #412760 08/09/18 11:11 PM
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Lou I have all the books you have and I can see the reasoning for your statement. There are many threads in the past on this site that people have gone round and round about models, series and years. No one can come to an agreement because things changed month to month back then. Chevrolet printed seven different owner/operator manuals from February to October 1925 to cover all the changes. They published a pamphlet showing 83 changes for 1925. Chevrolet renewed their contracts with their dealers in August each year. Chevrolet allowed the dealers to sell all cars received after the signing as the next model year. That's where the confusion comes in. My 1925 'K' was built in early October 1925 and was sold and registered as a 1926. My car has some 1926 features but the big changes came on or about January 1st. So that is why the data sheets in the parts books show series 'B' in 1924 and series 'F' in the 1925 selling years and so on. Here is a site that might help you answer some of your questions. Keep it in your favorites; it's a good reference.
http://home.earthlink.net/~scrippsbooth/


Steve
'25 Superior "K", '79 Corvette , '72 Corvette LT-1 & 1965 Corvette Coupe
Lou #412976 08/14/18 11:41 AM
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Here is what I know about the differences between 1923 & 1924 Chevrolet passenger cars without digging into my literature:

Front axles: '23 has a dip in the center (same as 490) and '24 is straight.
Oil Pump: '23 is mounted to the front of the generator (like 490) & '24 is mounted to the rear of the generator
Brakes: '23 rear brakes are cable & '24 has brake rods
Radiator Shell: One year has front to back adjustments and the other year is side to side.
Horn: '23 cowl has a small diameter hole for the horn and '24 is much larger w/ 6(I think) holes.
Horn Button: Mid-'23 the horn switched from the side of the steering column to the center of the steering wheel.
Frames also have some minor differences (mostly for rear brakes)
Speedometer: '23 has the trip odometer post off to the side of the speedometer and '24 is different.
Rear Wheel Hubs: '23 wheel hubs have the same thread as the hubcap & '24 uses a hub extension so the wheel itself has a different thread
Electrical Systems: The '23 could have Remy or Auto-lite electrical systems & I believe all '24 used only the Remy system.
Carb: '23 could use the Holley, Carter, or Zenith T4X & I believe the '24 used the Zenith T4X-F, Holley or Carter

There were many engineering updates put into the '23 copper cooled cars but when that project was scrapped Chevrolet continued to use all of the 490 drive train parts. 1923 models used most of the 490 drive train parts.
1924 had some updates to the 490 drive train parts, but nothing major.
1925 saw many significant engineering drive train updates that were originally designed into the copper cooled car.

My '23 Touring is a very late build (possibly the last day of 1923 production) and has a few of the '24 updates.
My body tag is mounted on the drivers side of the front seat base.


Chris
Lou #412996 08/14/18 07:32 PM
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The info in this thread would make a good article for the G&D.

;-) Dean

Lou #413144 08/18/18 05:08 AM
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Hi All,
. I don’t know how to post photos on this site, so I have sent private emails to those who replied.
They contain the photos that I refer to.
Send me your email address if you would like the photos that go with this reply.


Hi Chris,
. Thank you for all the useful information.
Here is the Data sheet from parts book. .
There are some errors so I don’t take everything as Gospel.
For example, note that the 1921 model “G” is listed as having a 5¼” stroke.
It is supposed to be 4” stroke.

. For 1923 Superior in the line that shows "type of car", it lists Touring, Roadster, Sedan, Sedanette (Coach), Coupe,
Com. Chas. (Pictured below), Light Del. (Pictured below that) Tour. Chas. (?), Util. Exp. (One ton model B Chas.).

Note the gas tank location and flat face cowl.
.
This is an old ad.


. So what the heck is a "Tour. Chas."?
It weighs 10 pounds less than a Commercial Chassis, but has no list price.
Could Chevy have removed a couple of leaves from the rear springs?
Would it have a touring cowl and passenger gas tank?
Below is another ad for a 1923 Superior Light Delivery.
It has a touring cowl and windshield.
The E-brake is behind the gear shift and not the center pedal.
It says Superior but looks like a 490 to me.
.
The price of $510 would correspond to a 1923 light delivery.
The 1924 light delivery only costs $495.

Back to the identification of a 1924 model "B".
I know that a 1923 “B” has a dipped axle and a 1924 “F” has a straight axle.
What does a 1924 “B” have?
Where does the 24 “B” have the oil pump?
Does the 1924 “B” have cable or rod brakes?
One of my 23’s has the horn button to the right side under the Spark lever.

It does not have a hollow steering shaft.


. Is your late 23 touring a “B” or “F”?
I realize the ID tag could be in many places.
On the floor where the driver steps upon entry has got to be the worst.

. Are your running boards wood or metal?
Are they covered in rubber, linoleum, painted or left natural?
Are your floor boards covered in carpet, rubber, linoleum, painted or left natural?
Would these be different in a closed or commercial car?


Do you recognize the carb?

. I realize there is a large crack in it.
What would I ask for?


. I know that bumpers were optional in 1923.
Would this be the correct optional bumper from Chevrolet?




. I have a lot of information about the Copper Cooled which I will share when
I learn how to insert photos on the VCCA chat forum. I only wish to open one
can of worms at a time.
. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, . . . Lou .

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Lou #413189 08/19/18 12:29 PM
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Lou,

I just found my January 1924 Instruction book states the serial number is located on the right side of the right seat and visible when the right front door is open. Anyone know what the 23 book says concerning the serial number location?

Thanks

Dave


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Serial numbers are found on the outer band of the flywheel and on the machined surface of the exhaust flange on the head. They are NOT found on the body itself.


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Chris my July 1,1924 Master price list of parts book states on the bottom of the last data sheet that 1923 Superior cars have the 'motor number' on the flywheel and the 'serial number' on the nameplate on the left side of the front seat frame. The same for 1924 except the nameplate could be on either the left or right side of the front seat frame. If the number on the flywheel and exhaust flange match then that shows you have the original head for that engine block. In the 'K' series that number went from the flywheel to the block just above the oil filler tube.
Steve


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Understood, my wording was incorrect. Titles used the 'motor number' which is on the head and flywheel only. The 'Car Number' located on the seat frame is what Chevrolet used to track the car in their production series.


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Chris, My car title uses the car number. As time went by the tags on the seat would get lost and some motor vehicle departments just used the engine number. The inspector didn't know anything about these old cars when I registered mine. At the time it had a piece of steel welded to the cowl with the number on it. I showed it to him and it matched the paperwork so he signed it off and registered it.
Steve


Steve
'25 Superior "K", '79 Corvette , '72 Corvette LT-1 & 1965 Corvette Coupe

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