VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1961-1964 409/409 Hemmings Muscle Machines

Hi,

I am working on a feature for Hemmings Muscle Machines on a 1962 409, and I'm in seach of good technical data. While the general stuff is well known, some of the specifics are hard to find. To whet your appetities, the car is a four-door post, 409/409 with a 3-speed column shift. Pretty rare...and we have the original window sticker & order form to document it. Plus, it's a 2-owner car.

Here's what I have so far...anything anyone can help out with would be great.

Thanks,
Dave

ENGINE
Type........OHV V-8, mechanical lifters
Displacement........409-cu.in.
Bore X stroke........4.3125 X 3.50 inches
Compression ratio........11.04:1
Horsepower @ rpm........409 @ 6,000
Torque @ rpm................420-lbs.ft. @ 4,000
Valvetrain................2.20-inch intake valves, 1.734-inch exhaust, forged steel connecting rods
Main bearings................[_____]
Fuel system........Dual Carter AFBS four-barrel carburetors, dual-plane aluminum intake
Ignition system................12-volt, _____
Lubrication system........_____
Exhaust system................Dual cast iron

TRANSMISSION
Type........................Heavy-duty three-speed, semi-centrifugal 10.5-inch clutch
Ratios: 1st................_____:1
2nd........................_____:1
3rd........................1._____:1
Reverse........................_____:1

DIFFERENTIAL
Type........................Positraction limited-slip _____
Ratio........................_____:1

STEERING
Type........................_____
Ratio........................_____:1
Turns, lock-to-lock........_____
Turning circle................_____ feet

BRAKES
Type........[___________]
Front........................[_____] X [_____] inch [___________]
Rear........................[_____] X [_____] inch [___________ drum]

CHASSIS & BODY
Construction........[___________]

SUSPENSION
Front........................Heavy-duty coil springs, heavy-duty shocks, 0.6075-inch anti-roll bar
Rear........................Heavy-duty coil springs, heavy-duty shocks

WHEELS & TIRES
Wheels........................[___________]
Front/rear................[_____] x [___________] inches
Tires........................[___________]
Front/rear................14.0 x 8.0 inches

WEIGHTS & MEASURES
Wheelbase................119 inches
Overall length................[_____] inches
Overall width................[_____] inches
Overall height................[_____] inches
Front track................[_____] inches
Rear track................[_____] inches
Shipping weight................3,750 pounds (Impala hardtop)

CAPACITIES
Crankcase................[_____] quarts
Cooling system................[_____] quarts
Fuel yank................[_____] gallons
Transmission................[_____] pints
Rear axle................[_____] pints

PRODUCTION
___________

PERFORMANCE
0-60 mph................[_____] seconds
¼ mile ET................[_____] seconds @ [_____] mph
Top speed................[_____] mph
[(Source: ___________)]

Will be working on it .Have 1962 Facts book and some road tests.

Ah, we meet again. I'm looking forward to it...if you have any means of reproducing those materials..ie a photocopy...I would welcome them by mail. We have Genat's Imapala book, but that's mostly historical; not heavy on the details.

Dave

Will fill in the specifications.If there are any errors,etc. others will correct I am sure.

Main bearings -5
Lubrication system -full pressure,gear pump

Trans.
ratio -1st 2.47 to 1, 2nd 1.53 to 1. reverse 2.80 to 1

Diff. Posi. optional
Ratio - 3.36

steering-recirculating ball
Ratio 28 to 1 standard, 24 to 1 with optional power steering
turns, lock to lock 5.1 with P/S and 5.7 with standard steering.
turning cirale 40.8 feet

Brakes,type hydralic internal expanding drum.

Fronts 11" X 2.75", rear 11' X 2"
sintered metallic optional, power optional

chassis and body-Body on frame, all steel

Wheels,14" X 6",5 lug, 15 " available
several brands of tires used in production.8.00 X 14 optional nylon cord recommended for 409.

Overall length 209.6", width 79", heigth 55.5", front track 60.3" rear track 59.3".

crankcase 5 qts.
cooling sys. 17.5 Qts

fuel tank 20 gals.

trans. ( 3 speed) 1 1/2 pints.
rear axle 3.5 pints

will send performance figures that I have.

Sure there will be some corrections/additions to the above but will make it less work for the next "expert".

In 1962 the Wisconsin Highway Patroll used Biscaynes 4 doors equipped in this manner.

Found a nice M.T. 1962 409 HP road test.Will snail mail it as my "pictures" don't always get delivered.

Dave,
I will try to call you tomorrow. I helped Dan Burger with some information he needed for the "Genat" book.
John Mahoney

Wheels are 14x5", not 14x6". 6" wheels were standard for wagons and not optional in '62.
Contrary to popular myth in the hobby, there is no such thing as a "409 wheel". The 8.00x14 tires were a required option with the 409 however (but they were on 5" wheels).

Verne

The finger tip facts book is a little vague as to the wheel size.Because its printed before new model announcement it can also contain errors on low production cars and options.When I posted 6" I had my doubts but knew if it was incorrect it would be noted.
Also in reading other literature I found that the 3 speed was discontinued mid year and the 4 speed was the only trans. available.Considering how these cars were driven I doubt if the old 3 speed, a design dating back to 1937, would have lasted very long behind a mighty 409.

Well, at least one three-speed has lasted for 44 years, although it's got under 60,000 miles in it.

Verne,
Where did you find the documetation for that? I see the parts book lists the 6" rim as wagon only in 61-62. Then again considering that the wagons were standard with the 8.00 X 14 tires maybe the parts book is just following that premise? I just can't find a clear answer one way or the other on the 6"rims. You have to admit it really does not make sense to produce that size tire and mounting it on two different size rims.
John

John,
The parts book you mentioned is one source that neglects to mention the 409 application. There is no mention of 409s in the Finger Tip Facts section that describes wheels. The Engineering Specifications for '62 merely mention station wagons for the 6" wheels. The RPO lists for the 409 option mention 8.00x14 tires required, but not 6" wheels required. The 8.00 x14 tire was optional for ANY model, and it's option price does not reflect that it includes a set of wheels. If it did, I would think there would be many survivors of a variety of models with 6" wheels (if they were optioned with 8.00x14 tires).
And on top of all that, I have seen some original '62 409 cars with their original wheels and they were 14x5. I own an original '09 car that has it's original spare, and it's 14x5.
I realize that it may sound logical for a 8.00x14 tire to get a 6" wheel since that's how the wagons were shod, but there is absolutely no evidence at all (that I've been able to find) that indicates the 409 cars received 6" wheels. That holds true for '61-'64, however the 14x 6 JK wheel became optional in '63. (on any model, or with any engine).

Verne

1962 facts book page 93,Wheels and tires,Rim width 5", on all models except station wagons....6" on station wagon models.Optional 8.00 X 14 4 ply nylon cord tires recommended for use with 409 V8 engines.
There are 19 different tire size options listed for 1962 full sized cars with sizes running from 7.00 X 14,7.50 and 8.00 as well as 6.70 X 15 and 7.10 X 15.Rayon,nylon, 4 ply, 6 ply, white, and black. + tube and tubeless and off road.
The parts book is not always a good sorce as they will list what will fit and can be used which was not all ways what was available from the factory.
Actually 8.00 tires were available for all passenger cars.

Verne,
I agree 100% with you as far the "409" application, and that is one of many "magazine myths" that have been interpreted as fact. I think you might have misunderstood me, I was in agreement with you that it was not a specific "409" package. I always tended to figure that it would cover much broader application and related to the tire size. I will admit that you made a very good observation about the rarity of the rim today, they would be a lot more common today if they were part of the 8.00 X 14 tire package.
John

Its posssible that the 8.00 tire on the 6 inch rim may not have fit in the wheel opening and leave enough clearance for tire chains.That was always a consideration back then.The extra "inch" was on the out side of the wheel.
I do see 6 inch rims listed for 1963-64 passenger cars.

Another observation worth mentioning is found in the Finger Tip Facts book for '63. In '63 the 14x6JK wheel became an option. (RPO P-12). The RPO listing for these wheels states, "not available on station wagons". That is because they are standard. Note that the listing does not also say "not available with 409".
Now if you look at the listing for the RPO for the heavy duty radiator, it does say "not available with 409". And that's because it is standard with the 409, so it can't be ordered as an option.

Unfortunately, 6" wheels on "restored" 1962 409 cars have become the standard. Who can not agree that they do look great on a Belair with small hub caps, which happens to be the most popular 409 car today. Someday a sanctioning judging body will (properly) judge those 6" wheels as incorrect on any '62 other than a station wagon. That's the day the poop hits the propeller on the show field........!

Verne

If anyone has an idea, I could really use:

Gear ratios for the 3-speed,
and 1/4 mile trap speed. I'm using 14.9 seconds as the ET...

Also, I know this car has 14 X 5 stock wheels...but does anyone know anything else about them? I didn't look under the hubcaps...stamped steel 5-lug, I presume?

Thanks,
Dave

The gear ratios for the 3 speed are above in my first reply...2.47 in 1st and 1.53 in 2nd.Stock rear axle ratio was 3.36.Since so few were equipped with the 3 speed and most had their rear ends swapped out for a lower ratio (usually 4.11) a quarter mile E.T would be difficult to find for this cars combination.The road test that I mailed to you has a 4 speed with a 4.11 rear end at a quarter mile ET of 14.9 and 98 mph...They mention a cars (stock) fine tuned for drag racing turning 12.9 and 110 MPH.The 14.9 sounds slow as I have two tests of a Power Glide with 340 HP doing the quater in just over 15 seconds.You sould recieve the road test today.The top speed was estimated at 118 MPH with the 4.11 rear end.Would probably be around 125-130 with the stock 3.36 gears.By 1962 most high performance cars had become so fast that the magazines no longer tested the top speed.
The wheel was a stamped,hub welded to rim, five lug, same as used on any 1962 sedan.