VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Body - Sheet Metal, Paint & Wood Wood Parts Duplicator

Has anyone used a duplicator wood carving machine to make wood parts? They are used to make gun stocks, but I can't see why they wouldn't work for this. I realize you need a pattern to copy from. Is it illegal or unethical to copy new parts made by Jim Rodman (or other)?

Seeing that Jim Rodman and others are only copying wood designed by Chevrolet I see no reason that making a duplicate would be either illegal or unethical.

OK. That's kinda what I thought. But is it do-able? Practical? I have never used a duplicator. Anybody have any experience?

I haven't priced duplicators. From what I read there is always some error built it, though I have only read articles pertaining to guitar manufacture. Given the nature of auto wood work perfect samples are needed and everyone one knows a piece from one car may not fit another so the risk is in unhappy customers. That is the main reason I don't do kits or pieces and am sticking to re-wooding complete bodies only. That way I can ensure fit and a properly aligned body. I don't believe there is adaquate need out there to support the expense of a duplicator or even CNC if you are thinking of getting into the wood part supplier business. Having said that if you want to try all the best.

Thanks cabboy. I don't really want to get into the wood parts business. But I have two 5 window coupe bodies and one complete wood kit from Jim Rodman (made about 8 years ago). I was thinking of making another wood kit, using the one I have as patterns.

I don't think there would be too much problem with duplicating the Rodman wood. Yes you might find that a little adjustment is necessary to fit a given body metal I am 100% sure that Fisher Body had a duplicator (or master pattern) when the original wood was made! I have made and received multiple pieces of a given part. For the most part they fit just fine. I have a duplicator on my wood lathe. Works great if it is set up correctly!

unless fisher body copyrighted the wood patterns, then you are free to duplicate. Doubt if they did that.

Same applies to jim rodman, if he copyrighted it then you cannot duplicate what he did. I guess you would have to ask his permission and pay a fee. ?????

mike lynch

I purchased a small duplicator on eBay to make the latch pillars on my 32’ Olds DCR. (The equivalent of a 32’ Chevy Cabriolet). Because it was only able to duplicate 16”, I made a slide table for it which allowed both the pattern and the new piece to move under the unit to extend the workable length of duplicator. I paid $500 for the machine used and the cost of the two latch pillars, if available would’ve been $530 from Bill Cartwright. I had to match the tool bit in size to the stylus tip and most the initial work is done with a round ball type bit. Finish work on the piece I found a standard rabbet bit to work best. Some clean up work is necessary with good sharp hand chisels and a sander but my duplicator made very nice pieces which fit as close to perfect as I could want. A duplicator requires a little practice and knowledge of wood routing equipment but it won’t take long to get satisfactory results. I’ve found the pillars are the hardest parts to make. Sills, cross sills, kick ups, and other pieces aren’t hard if you’ve got fairly decent wood working equipment. I made exact mirror images on left/right sided parts on my car and all fit perfectly. If you go to the AACA forums and then the “Our cars and restoration” section, look up my restoration thread under 32’ Olds DCR. Go to post 85 to see the duplicator and the latch pillars I made with it. I was posting some of my work here because the bodies are virtually identical in most aspects but didn’t continue to post as it’s not a Chevy and didn’t want anyone ticked off at me.

Is anybody chirping you about posting on your 32 olds in VCCA chat. ???

mike lynch

Thanks all. Chistech, I checked out your '32 Olds. Nice project! Yes the pillars look the most complicated. A lot of the others I can make. Olds not part of GM in "32? Would be nice to see it here anyway.

Olds not part of GM in "32

Bertus must have read a different GM history than I did.

Mike

Bertus, if you care to google General Motors and Oldsmobile you will find Oldsmobile was acquired in 1909

mike lynch

Thanks Mike. So then why would it be an issue to have Olds on this site?
Another question: Looked at Chistech's Olds restoration project on AACA. Amazing! I will refer to it as my own project '32 Chevy progresses. Noticed it has the golf bag door. Chevy does not?

No, the 1932 Chevrolet does not have a golf bag door since it was a cheaper vehicle than the 1932 Oldsmobile.

Mike, to clear up my statement, no, no one has said anything about what I've posted so far on my Olds. It's more a respect thing for the VCCA Chat forum. It's a Chevy site, not an Olds and judging by some comments made by some individuals in other threads on other subjects, I just felt it might just be a matter of time when someone might make a comment to why is the VCCA allowing posts about an Olds. I feel it's better not to get the "boat" rocking so I chose on my own not to post much about it. I have posted some things because the Olds DCR is almost identical in the sheet metal with small differences such as the already stated golf bag door and just the design of the upper beltline molding. The Olds, Chevy, Pontiac, and possibly the Buick series 50 cabriolets are all Fisher bodied and are all very close. They all share the same windshield framing and the same convertible roof hardware/top irons. I will say that I wish the NAOC (National Antique Oldsmobile Club) had a great forum chat like the VCCA but it doesn't. Also, guys like me with the pre-war Olds seem kind of like red headed step children as the concentration appears more on post war Olds. I decided to post my restoration on the AACA site because there was really no other place.

If the powers to be don't mind me posting about my Olds , I will post more of the build thread in the member photo area as I've done in the past with my own 31' Chevy and others I restored. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if people get a little tired of my postings/pictures. I still appreciate the members here that helped me immensely with the pictures/advice they supplied me when I did my special sedan so hopefully I can do the same for others with my posts and photos.

Because the site is supposed to be devoted to the preservation and restoration of VINTAGE Chevrolets, but yet there is more street rodders on here than they know about. Every once in a while somebody spouts off about it. But we can learn from a similar GM car and problems encountered.

We shall see if anybody CHIRPS about the olds.

My friend Frank who runs vintage vehicle services at GM Canada also has a 1931 Olds coupe and it has the golf club door, rumble seat, dual side mounts , roll down rear window., luggage rack, bird ornament. Real neat car and he says they are just a bit bigger than the chevrolet.. Its the only 31 olds I have seen. When he went to PENN to see the car in a barn, he was under the impression it was supposed to be a 32. Either way he is happy.

mike lynch

The bodies on the 31' and 32' Olds are virtually the same. The 32' Chassis is almost 8" longer with longer hood and longer, sweeping front fenders. Like 31' to 32' Chevys, the hoods go from louvers in 31' to doors in 32' with the long Olds hood having 5 doors on each side. The 32' had both the 6cyl and the 8cyl available that is the reason for the longer wheelbase. When the 8cyl was installed, the rear engine crossmember was moved back into a second set of holes (visible in my 6cyl frame) and a side rail brace was moved back along with the firewall of the cowl having a depression for the longer engine block. In 33', Olds continued with the 8cyl but shortened the frame so the 32's are really unique and have an elegant "presence" when viewed from the side. The 32's also had cab adjustable shocks, stromberg automatic choke, alloy block, full pressurized oiling, rifle drilled rods, and engine decarbonizer. What I've learned is the 32' model year is considered to many to be the holy grail of pre-war Olds with the DCR models the most desireable. I was quite fortunate to find this car but it has been a large undertaking.

what is a D C R model of oldsmobile ????

mike lynch

The manufacturers all used different names for the same model. Chevy called it a Cabriolet, pontiac called it a convertible coupe (I believe Buick did also), and Olds called it a convertible roadster. All Olds had rumble seats and there were no trunk models (not sure of the other brands). Of course Olds was way off because it is not a roadster at all. The six wheeled models were called and actually stamped on the sill tag, DCR for deluxe convertible roadster. Olds also produced 5 wheeled cars in both wood and wired wheeled versions, with the wood wheel variant of the 5 wheel being the rarest and so far my research has shown no 5 wheel roadsters in existence. A total of 733 convertible roadster models with 6 cylinder engines were produced, 333 deluxe wire, 249 deluxe wood, leaving just 151 roadsters in 5 wheel configuration. Like with all models, wire wheels were prevalent so the wood versions are the fewest. There was even fewer 8 cylinder roadsters made and I have only found 2 in my research. One wire, one wood, both deluxe, 6 wheeled cars. Another thing unique to 32’ Olds is they had matching numbers stamped on the frame, engine, and sill tag. Serial numbers started after 10000 and my car is 14071 so my car was the 4071st car off the line in Lansing. The engine and frame numbers started in the 303xxx range. My car was a second week of February production and currently the earliest known roadster still around. Not sure if this is true but was told Olds was the only GM division using matching numbers back then?

Tried to attach a photo of my data plate but it wouldn’t allow it.

d c r = DELUXE CONVERTABLE ROADSTER , interesting, because a roadster is a roadster and a convertible is a convertible.

The common understanding of a roadster is , has side curtains for windows. Common understanding of a convertible is that it has roll up windows on the side.

A roadster generally the windshield glass flips outward as my 35 phaeton and roadster do. A convertible *may have* a folding windshield where the glass is fixed in place.


Now wonder we are all confused today, they were throwing BAFFLEGAB AT US back in 32.

mike lynch

That's kinda like the Oldsmobile 4-4-2 indicating 4 Barrel, 4 Speed, Dual Exhaust. By the end of the model I think it had a 6cyl, single exhaust and automatic lol.
It's all about the marketing and they've trained us to think there's real meaning in their bafflegab...

In their wisdom the powers that be HAIRBALLS at Generous Motors took the Oldsmobile Cutlass name and created the INTRIGUE 1997 ? and produced yet another f-ugly car.

Soon after to pass into the wasteland of automobiles no longer made. Soon Pontiac joined it to be left with only the Cadillac & BUICK of the originals. A buick, really, but apparently the Chinese love them, so its gotten to live on.

Without government intervention General Motors was done , finished , in the toilet, gone sayonara, RIP.

The goofy junk cars they have produced and sold to the public is enough to say, let them go under and stay under.

mike lynch

I did it for my shop and it worked great mate! I used to live in Hampshire and I had a hard time to find a renting space to have my carpenter shop. It was actually much easier to do that in the US and since I'm originally from Texas I decided to move there and open up a shop. Another great thing is that you are able to spend much less on equipment and tools compared to the UK. I had some crazy quotes by some British companies as opposed to the ease that I had thanks to guides like these https://mitersawjudge.com/best-benchtop-jointer-reviews-and-buying-guide/ which allowed me to shop online all my smaller tools needed.